I don't understand why it is NOT the norm already and we still need to have a global crisis like a pandemic to "force" this.
For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
91–100 of 461 posts
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#92Didn't read the article - no access, just some thoughts: the downward pressure on wages will probably become a norm for WFH. Google has already set a precedent. However, unless it takes another unexpected turn, WFH is win-win-win: companies can save on office space and a bit on reduced salaries too; employees will have a healthier life and the freedom to live in cheaper locations; and finally WFH is good for the envi…
> Didn't read the article - no access With JS disabled, I can read it perfectly well (Firefox, Privacy Badger, and NoScript, from the U.S.A.).
Right, that means there must be an archive.is link for it and of course there is one: https://archive.is/qK9Mk
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or rather that demonstrates the absolute value of physical meetings. If all day long Zoom calls and Slack messages could have led to spontaneous discussions/new initiatives like that they already would have, but they didn't, I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I firmly believe if Silicon Valley goes fully remote, then it will no longer stay the innovation en…
> I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I've seen more sparks fly from random discussions on Slack then I've ever seen in person. The ability to toss out random thoughts/idea at any time, and have others discuss/expand on them at their leisure is... powerful. Different modes of communication have different tradeoffs. There's nothing magical about in-person com…
Amen. Company cultures that allow for good online text based chat are great, but what the GP described is basically poison to them.
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or rather that demonstrates the absolute value of physical meetings. If all day long Zoom calls and Slack messages could have led to spontaneous discussions/new initiatives like that they already would have, but they didn't, I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I firmly believe if Silicon Valley goes fully remote, then it will no longer stay the innovation en…
> I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I've seen more sparks fly from random discussions on Slack then I've ever seen in person. The ability to toss out random thoughts/idea at any time, and have others discuss/expand on them at their leisure is... powerful. Different modes of communication have different tradeoffs. There's nothing magical about in-person com…
>There's nothing magical about in-person communication.
Other the fact that the brains of our entire specie has evolved for millions of years for this exact type of communication, there isn't anything magical, I guess...
The information bandwidth of in-person communication is absolutely unparalleled, even if technology can now match in latency.
Good luck replicating body language, eye contacts, subtle facial cues etc with Slack messages.
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#95Different problems require different solutions. Working from home is here to stay and will probably be much more accepted moving into the future. If it is going to eliminate working in the office, I don't think so. If it will, it will be gradually over many years - and if it does disappear (working in the office) I hope that new devs will find new ways to collaborate that has equal or better benefits. Future is bright!
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#96As preferable as WFH is for many and as productive as many people can be while working remote, at the end of the day, you can't change human nature. There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new…
> There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate.
As a person who lives in a geologically stable region I have to chuckle because it is entirely possible that this comment will age as terribly as that 'which country is best equipped to deal with a pandemic (2019) post that we saw recently.
I don't deny the part of your comment about in person interactions being the foundation of creative output but all that is overridden by the notion that this must take place in Silicon Valley.
With rising sea levels and the fault lines in the region I'm aghast that so many of America's eggs are in one precarious basket. Apple, Microsoft, Google and Amazon are all based in this region, it just seems so utterly short-sighted.
What the hell is America going to do if there is a cataclysmic event that takes out this region?
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#97The entire article is based off scrapes of HN "Who is Hiring" threads. Why do we think that they're a sufficiently representative sample of the overall software job market?
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Not knowing how isn't proof it can't be done. Human interaction skills falls into the category of things that knowledge doesn't even remotely guarantee outcome. You can teach a group of socially awkward and introvert people an entire 4 years course of how to be a charismatic socialite and most of them still won't become one. > Lots of things are currently happening in the world that were just science fiction not tha…
>You can teach a group of socially awkward and introvert people an entire 4 years course of how to be a charismatic socialite and most of them still won't become one. That’s why I’m not missing out on the A-team bullshit by working remotely, I wasn’t the type to land it when I was in the office. I ate lunch at my desk and got the fuck out when I was done for the day. I’m not wired for all of that.
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as you are happy and you get what you want out of your job.
My entire argument is that for most people, they will unlikely be having their cake and eat it too. But if you never cared for eating cake, then all the powers to you.
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or rather that demonstrates the absolute value of physical meetings. If all day long Zoom calls and Slack messages could have led to spontaneous discussions/new initiatives like that they already would have, but they didn't, I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I firmly believe if Silicon Valley goes fully remote, then it will no longer stay the innovation en…
> I saw more sparks flying in one afternoon of social event than 3 months of planned video calls. I've seen more sparks fly from random discussions on Slack then I've ever seen in person. The ability to toss out random thoughts/idea at any time, and have others discuss/expand on them at their leisure is... powerful. Different modes of communication have different tradeoffs. There's nothing magical about in-person com…
>The ability to toss out random thoughts/idea at any time, and have others discuss/expand on them at their leisure is... powerful.
Yes, That is powerful. And I utterly fail to understand how some people appear to NOT see this.
OP for one appear to argue that people are expected to talk about work when they are having lunch ffs! I mean, it is OK if you want to talk about work, but you cannot realistically expect others to share your enthusiasm as well, or may be they do share your enthusiasm, but might want to talk about other things when they eat...
Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is mistaken. Companies need good employees, and particularly skilled developers. If you're a skilled developer, I urge you to exercise your negotiation power. You have much more than you think. The problem is, most people aren't willing to walk from job offers. Walk. There are more.
> and particularly skilled developers. skilled developers are much more common than people think. We get the impression of rarity precisely because we limit the search pool to local areas where very often many top companies are competing for the same talent pool. But at the end of the day there are a ton of super smart developers in EU, China, India, Japan, South America or even lower to mid COL areas in the U.S. who…
Technically correct, but even GitLab has a relatively short list of countries where they hire[0]. Legal requirement are probably going to continue to limit the talent pool for the foreseeable future.
[0] - https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/people-group/employment-so...