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Australia is becoming a surveillance state

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Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#381

Post by throwawaylinux »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #346
throwawaylinux wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skilled immigration is neocolonialism. I truly can't believe how many (supposedly enlightened) people I've had try to tell me with a straight face how wonderful it is to have all these doctors/engineers/etc coming to their country, and how great it is for their economy and healthcare system etc. Like, you don't think all the people in India or The Philippines or Chad need doctors or economic advancement?? It's just i…

If that's true, then neocolonialism is meaningless as a pejorative. I associate neocolonialism with economic hit men and predatory loans, not private citizens having the option to leave often abusive governments. By your definition, neocolonialism is simply the absence of serfdom.

> If that's true, then neocolonialism is meaningless as a pejorative. I associate neocolonialism with economic hit men and predatory loans,

Now that is meaningless. There are a whole vast range of ways to be exploitative and wealthy and powerful taking from poor and powerless.

> not private citizens having the option to leave often abusive governments.

I'm talking about the aggregate outcome for the people. The greater good. It's funny the disconnect some people have here between being so fast to denounce "individualism" greed, selfishness etc., in their own countries when they see it is a detriment to them. And yet they go completely the other way when it's a benefit to them and a detriment to people of other countries. That's the height of selfishness and hypocrisy as I see it.

> By your definition, neocolonialism is simply the absence of serfdom.

No it's not.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#382

Post by throwawaylinux »

lethologica wrote: post #356
throwawaylinux wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skilled immigration is neocolonialism. I truly can't believe how many (supposedly enlightened) people I've had try to tell me with a straight face how wonderful it is to have all these doctors/engineers/etc coming to their country, and how great it is for their economy and healthcare system etc. Like, you don't think all the people in India or The Philippines or Chad need doctors or economic advancement?? It's just i…

Talk to some immigrants here in Australia and you’ll find that a lot don’t end up in the industry they were in from their home country. We have some pretty strict rules around qualifications for doctors, engineers etc and a lot of other countries educations doesn’t cut it for our standards. So most end up becoming taxi drivers or cleaners. When you speak with some of them, it’s almost tragic to have a talented indivi…

Yes it is. I'm not saying some individual's story or an anecdote is neocolonialism. It's the entire system of siphoning resources from disadvantaged regions to wealthy ones.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#383

Post by throwawaylinux »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #324
throwawaylinux wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you write doesn't refute the problem which is that countries like this generally have worse health outcomes, healthcare systems, they have fewer skilled workers to build their economies. Skimming their best resources off the top can't be justified by some dry economic formula (if it happens to be correct) that just by pure coincidence results in a worse outcome for that poorer country and a better outcome for th…

You might enjoy this article from a Malaysian doctor (ok, Cambridge educated but fine) who is arguing that Malaysia is over-producing doctors: https://www.thestar.com.my/opinion/columnists/vital-signs/20... I would agree that the Phillipines are under-supplied according to OECD ratios but again, I don't think the problem is emigration. Personally I think your mental model of these countries is out-of-date. They are s…

I'm not saying some individual's story or a particular situation in a particular country is neocolonialism. It's the entire system of siphoning resources from disadvantaged regions to wealthy ones.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#384

Post by throwawaylinux »

shell0x wrote: post #363
throwawaylinux wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these rhetorical questions? I'm not quite sure how they address my comment. There is a difference between that and the systemic concerted efforts by wealthy countries to poach and take the most valuable, skilled, educated of the human capital from poorer countries who are in positions of weakness and far less bargaining power. I understand that the narrative is that it's about "helping the unfortunates", but real…

I understand what you mean, but it’s not exclusive to wealthy countries poaching people from developing countries either right. In Germany(already a wealthy country) doctors move to Switzerland for better pay and better working conditions too. It’s also very expensive to move internationally. Visas can cost up to $10,000 alone, so I doubt that so many people actually leave developing countries for developed ones. The…

I didn't intend to imply that's the only situation where skilled migration occurs, but that is what I wrote so I should correct myself. When there is a relatively fair and level competition to compete for resources then there's less room for exploitative behavior of course. That applies not just to labor but really anywhere.

I think you're rationalizing or painting yourself a reality that you wish was true. Brain drain from disadvantaged countries on an industrial scale is a serious problem. Not for the wealthy privileged countries who benefit of course, which is why nobody says much about it and those who do get attacked.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#385

Post by plugger »

tristor wrote: post #288
advanced-DnD wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our leading politicians still debate whether climate change is real or not. But the Great Barrier Reef is definitely no endangered, because UNESCO says so!!! Australia is a joke of a country. It's just a Texas with ocean.

> Australia is a joke of a country. It's just a Texas with ocean. Unfortunately it's worse than that, at least Texas has significant fiber infrastructure and quality high-speed Internet, some basic understanding of personal freedom and respect for individual privacy, and low enough property costs and taxes that normal average people can survive comfortably there, not just those blessed with a corporate job. Also in T…

> with also having the worst facets of Texas

Excluding the gun deaths and socialised health care of course. Those are two things that Australia has unambiguously gotten right that Texas and/or the US seems incapable of addressing.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#386

Post by plugger »

L_226 wrote: post #66

Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it. Corporate interests own the media, politicians, food production, education etc. and no one cares, because Life Is Good. Why expect anything to change, or people to care about strong democratic in…

> Since leaving Australia (and started living in Europe) I have come to the conclusion that Australia is not a "real" country - it is just a continent owned by corporate interests that happens to also have people living on it.

Since leaving the USA and moving to Australia I've come to the conclusion that the USA is in a unstoppable decline and will continue to degrade, both in terms of society and infrastructure, for the foreseeable future. And say what you will about Australia being a driven by corporate interests but one thing we've gotten right in comparison to the rest of the Western world is our insistence of handling the pandemic correctly, ie placing human life over the short term economic interests of the upper class.

We lock down in Western Australia when we have one case of COVID in the community. I don't believe ANY European or North American country can say the same. Who's beholden to corporate interests again?

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#387

Post by refurb »

HKH2 wrote: post #376
refurb wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be entirely wrong, but I wonder if it’s shared culture with other SE Asian countries? Having spend time in SE Asia, I’ve found the “collective mindset” to be inaccurate. People there are just as likely to screw over their fellow man as any other country. What’s different is the deference to authority. When the govt cracks down, people don’t really complain or push back. They accept it much more readily. Not s…

They're collective in that they're strongly monocultural.

Singapore isn’t and still highly collective.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#388

Post by unixhero »

partomniscient wrote: post #189
brokenmachine wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Australia, but the way we're headed is not the Australia that I love.

It's weird but to me looking back with your "Australia I love" comment, it seems Bob Hawke was the last true Australian Prime Minister.

The last homie

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#389

Post by brokenmachine »

candiodari wrote: post #134
brokenmachine wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments have no problem "stepping over the threshold" and using violence. If you think that the US government wouldn't use violence against its own people for breaking laws, even hastily-written or unfair laws, you're sorely mistaken.

Yes, but there is a very low limit to the number of people that can be on the other end of the violence, and with guns, that limit is even much lower. When push comes to shove, guns allow normal people to escalate violence to the point the government stops MUCH quicker and faster than without guns.

>Yes, but there is a very low limit to the number of people that can be on the other end of the violence, and with guns, that limit is even much lower.

I don't really understand what you mean here?

You pull your gun out and threaten a government representative, and you will be dead or in handcuffs within 30 minutes.

Maybe your idea of civilian government overthrow could come true if you could somehow gather thousands of people with guns who are against the government simultaneously, but other than that, it's over. And even if you do manage to gather those people, it's over when the national guard arrives.

Escalating violence doesn't work when you're massively outgunned, or do you have your own Apache helicopters, armed drones and tanks? Do you think they will hesitate to attack armed terrorists trying to overthrow the "democratically elected" government?

I'm not American so please explain what I'm missing here.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#390

Post by unixhero »

techdragon wrote: post #169
chadcmulligan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're all making money, house prices are up, how good is that?

It’s disgustingly depressing for a generation who are looking at home ownership as unrealistic. I make pretty decent money but buying a home anywhere that isn’t several hours commute away from my entire life is an exercise in finding the most cramped shit hole imaginable. We’re a country of cities with tiny zones of walkable inner city surrounded by Suburban sprawl so extreme that for instance Perth’s metro area spre…

Can confirm, Melbourne is absolutely gigantic. No really, so big it didn't make sense to me.
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