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On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

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Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#21

Post by chc »

axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

She pointed out in her post that AirBnB makes it close to impossible to do better checking on people, and she had the impression that this was because they were doing the vetting.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#22

Post by alanfalcon »

georgemcbay wrote: post #20
axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

"She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun."" I don't use Airbnb from either side, but isn't the big problem here that you can't do due dilligence? As I understand it (and again, as a non-user maybe I am wrong), Airbnb pretty much blocks you from knowing too much about your tempor…

And that's a good reason to avoid Airbnb, not a good reason to give a stranger your keys.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#24

Post by jbondeson »

axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

The only due diligence possible is an AirBnB-provided, essentially anonymous, IM conversation. Anyone who attempts to use the AirBnB service who isn't running a legitimate short-term rental property (with all the associated insurance and safeguards) is playing russian roulette with their property and possessions. And if they're home during the rental they're potentially risking life and limb.

This is a failure of the business model. If they are unwilling to get into the business of creating a safe, vetted community for short-term rentals, they need to disallow personal rental properties and stick with full-time rental companies.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#25

Post by pg »

MisterMerkin wrote: post #16
trjordan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before booking, AirBnB does not allow you swap personal information, primarily so you can't go outside their system to make your arrangements. There are both financial and community-building reasons for this. Once the payment has been made (well before the guest arrives), the host gets access to all of the private information of the guest. I believe they could chose to rescind the offer of hospitality at this point -…

How ironic given that they built the business on spamming craigslist and circumventing users' requests to not be solicited.

They did not build the business this way. That was something done years ago by a single contractor without their knowledge, and it had an insignificant effect on their growth.

Edit: Actually it sounds like it was several contractors (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/07/1-billion-1-br-amazin...)

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#26

Post by pg »

MisterMerkin wrote: post #17
DanielRibeiro wrote: post #3

From these efforts, I get the impression that AirBnB really epitomizes the Be Good argument (where Don't be Evil isn't enough)[1] [1] http://paulgraham.com/good.html

You've got to be kidding me. Are you not aware of AirBnB's history and how they built their userbase?

I replied to the other comment you made saying the same thing elsewhere on this thread:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2815183

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#27

Post by AndyJPartridge »

physcab wrote: post #19

I want to believe that people are fundamentally good as well and there is definitely evidence that supports that. But this incident has left a bad taste in my mouth, and their response hasn't made me feel any better. It's not like Ebay where if you have a bad experience, your loss is stemmed to the material good you have given away. On AirBnb, the potential harm in the worst case for both a guest and a host are massi…

One faces the posibility of those horrible loses each day, but obviously you are increasing your risk with AirBnB.

But a nutter having your key is just a minor detail if entry is desired; and with AirBnB at least you get a cash reward for your risk.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#28

Post by SoftwareMaven »

jmjerlecki wrote: post #12

This post is in the right direction and I applaud Brian for stepping up, but this has taken too long for this to happen. If you note in EJ's post, she states that she would not be compensated for any damages and she was on the hook. Airbnb didn't step up to the plate until it was posted on Techcrunch. This has been simmering since June and they really could have gotten ahead of this and handled this entirely differen…

They were hoping nobody would notice. I'm sure they've been working on changes as a result of this since June and have had a response plan in place as well, but in their ideal world, this would have never made it to the top of HN and other sites, and TechCrunch would have never gotten involved.

Why point people towards something that will always give you a black eye when they could say "see the new features we have to keep you safe" instead?

FWIW, similar to PayPal paying well north of $100M to really learn how to do fraud prevention, AirBnB should consider the cost of making things right for her as part of the cost of learning how to rent safely. Not doing so is a very short-term decision that reduces trust in their ecosystem and trust is fundamental to their success.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#29

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

untog wrote: post #9
latch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate though on the exact timing of the exchange? EJ's story makes it sound insufficient: "Thus by the time this reservation was confirmed and I was given Dj’s email address and phone number, I was on a plane heading East, and he/she was armed with my welcoming instructions on where to pick up the keys to my apartment." For the rest of it, I'm not saying that the response is inconsistent. I'm saying that…

Can you elaborate though on the exact timing of the exchange? EJ's story makes it sound insufficient: I used to work for an AirBnb clone wannabe, so I can't speak for the exact site itself, but the way ours operated was that you could cancel the booking at any point after it was confirmed- if you do it very shortly before arrival there were financial penalties to doing so. Of course, if someone sends through a bookin…

At least on AirBNB you can always decline a (potential) booking, so if you always want [x] days, you can simply always decline if the booking is that soon.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#30

Post by go37pi »

AndyJPartridge wrote: post #27
physcab wrote: post #19

I want to believe that people are fundamentally good as well and there is definitely evidence that supports that. But this incident has left a bad taste in my mouth, and their response hasn't made me feel any better. It's not like Ebay where if you have a bad experience, your loss is stemmed to the material good you have given away. On AirBnb, the potential harm in the worst case for both a guest and a host are massi…

One faces the posibility of those horrible loses each day, but obviously you are increasing your risk with AirBnB. But a nutter having your key is just a minor detail if entry is desired; and with AirBnB at least you get a cash reward for your risk.

You're right about the financial expected value, but I think you might be disregarding the trust aspect of the transaction, which I think was why Airbnb was so successful. Buying into the brand reinforces a particularly optimistic world view that people who are likely to use Airbnb enjoy.

Plus, when you are giving your key to another person, the risk is not just monetary, but the additional emotional risk of just being violated. I think it was very telling that EJ was particularly betrayed by the lies in the ongoing email updates and not just the monetary loss.

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