On Safety: A Word From Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#11

Post by AndyJPartridge » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 2:54 AM UTC

trjordan wrote: post #5

latch wrote: post #4

There continues to be a major point of conflict between EJ's concerns and AirBnB's position. In fact, the point of conflict is actually within AirBnB's safety policies itself: 1 - Private messaging that lets users learn about each other prior to booking, without revealing private information 2 - Reservation system that allows hosts to accept or decline guests, giving them complete control over who books their space I…

Before booking, AirBnB does not allow you swap personal information, primarily so you can't go outside their system to make your arrangements. There are both financial and community-building reasons for this. Once the payment has been made (well before the guest arrives), the host gets access to all of the private information of the guest. I believe they could chose to rescind the offer of hospitality at this point -…

"Before booking, AirBnB does not allow you swap personal information, primarily so you can't go outside their system to make your arrangements."

That would be a selfish act then. (But from a business point of view an understandable one.)

But on the other hand, I'm not sure what we would expect them to do? There simply isn't a way they can guarantee you don't get a nutter.

It's a gamble that you choose, you may win, you may lose.

I for one would not rent anything other than a steel box with a blow up matress on the floor that cost less that the rent I was charging.

But on the other hand I'd love to visit some of the places they have available. I'd treat those locations with the upmost of respect, but would be mindful of the fact any number of camera's could be filming me.

AirBnB is a fantastic idea, if people were not people.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#12

Post by jmjerlecki » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 2:55 AM UTC

This post is in the right direction and I applaud Brian for stepping up, but this has taken too long for this to happen. If you note in EJ's post, she states that she would not be compensated for any damages and she was on the hook. Airbnb didn't step up to the plate until it was posted on Techcrunch. This has been simmering since June and they really could have gotten ahead of this and handled this entirely different. Imagine had they come out in June and fessed up and said this is how we are going to handle it. EJ we are taking care of everything, we are instituting new policies, looking into insurance and we will have a dedicated 24 hour hotline for customer support. They would have set the precedent for how to handle these situations. Instead they did like everyone else and only dealt with it once it became a much larger issue.

/sidenote if I was Brian I would by no means be quoting EJ's blog post as proof to saying they handled this correctly. Because they didn't.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#13

Post by axiom » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 2:57 AM UTC

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened?

First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill.

It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the population is good and decent (maybe it's 99%, maybe it's 98%, but it's certainly not 100%) Given that every mature adult is aware of this, the way the host acted was pretty irresponsible and was kind of inviting disaster.

She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun." What are the odds that if you do that 50 or 100 times that something like this doesn't happen? Also, how many people would be careless enough to do that?

Seriously, it's pretty tragic what happened and I really feel for the host, but it rubs me the wrong way that AirBnB is getting this massive amount of bad press when in fairness they just posted a listing and handled the transaction. Could they have more security measures in place? sure, but the way the host acted, I'm really not convinced anything would have made a difference here.

If you give keys to your place to a random stranger without so much as meeting them or getting basic information about them, then you're going to get burned.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#14

Post by jsherry » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 2:59 AM UTC

Here's what you see when you search the term "insurance" on airbnb.com: http://www.airbnb.com/help/search?q=insurance

Something like this would be more reassuring: http://support.getaround.com/kb/insurance-infractions/how-do...

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#15

Post by mcantelon » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 2:59 AM UTC

None of this sounds like it addresses the underlying problem: you're relying on them to vet the guest yet you're the one with the most to lose if they get it wrong.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#16

Post by MisterMerkin » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 3:00 AM UTC

trjordan wrote: post #5

latch wrote: post #4

There continues to be a major point of conflict between EJ's concerns and AirBnB's position. In fact, the point of conflict is actually within AirBnB's safety policies itself: 1 - Private messaging that lets users learn about each other prior to booking, without revealing private information 2 - Reservation system that allows hosts to accept or decline guests, giving them complete control over who books their space I…

Before booking, AirBnB does not allow you swap personal information, primarily so you can't go outside their system to make your arrangements. There are both financial and community-building reasons for this. Once the payment has been made (well before the guest arrives), the host gets access to all of the private information of the guest. I believe they could chose to rescind the offer of hospitality at this point -…

How ironic given that they built the business on spamming craigslist and circumventing users' requests to not be solicited.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#17

Post by MisterMerkin » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 3:00 AM UTC

DanielRibeiro wrote: post #3

From these efforts, I get the impression that AirBnB really epitomizes the Be Good argument (where Don't be Evil isn't enough)[1] [1] http://paulgraham.com/good.html

You've got to be kidding me. Are you not aware of AirBnB's history and how they built their userbase?

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#18

Post by commanda » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 3:02 AM UTC

Unfortunately, no matter what safety mechanisms Airbnb puts in place, messes like this are still going to happen. Even if there were a reliable rating or karma system, and you could exchange messages with a potential renter before accepting them, you will still have the "Ebay problem" - where a malicious party gains access to a trusted user's account and uses it to fool people into renting to them.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#19

Post by physcab » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 3:04 AM UTC

I want to believe that people are fundamentally good as well and there is definitely evidence that supports that.

But this incident has left a bad taste in my mouth, and their response hasn't made me feel any better. It's not like Ebay where if you have a bad experience, your loss is stemmed to the material good you have given away. On AirBnb, the potential harm in the worst case for both a guest and a host are massive -- total material loss or even rape or death.

I'm sure many people find value using their service, but after today, the risk is so clearly present that I don't think you can pay me to use it.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#20

Post by georgemcbay » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 3:05 AM UTC

axiom wrote: post #13

Can we agree that the host here is at least partially responsible for what happened? First, let me say that what happened was horrible, and the person who did the damage should go to jail for a long long time. AirBnB should cover the cost of all damages as a gesture of goodwill. It's really a shame that this kind of stuff can happen, but the reality (that I'd hope most people understand) is that not 100% of the popul…

"She literally left a key for a total stranger to her home, without doing ANY due-diligence. Someone basically sent her an email, and she said "okey-dokey, here's the keys, have fun.""

I don't use Airbnb from either side, but isn't the big problem here that you can't do due dilligence? As I understand it (and again, as a non-user maybe I am wrong), Airbnb pretty much blocks you from knowing too much about your temporary renter as a measure to avoid you using them as a match up service and then doing the deal directly to avoid paying them their fee.