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Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

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Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#291

Post by itsumoiru »

deanCommie wrote: post #77

A lot of the discussion here is treating impostor syndrome and qualifications as binary: You're either qualified or not. And your evaluation of your skills is either above your actual skills or not. But it's more nuanced than that. I'm a Principal Engineer at a FAAMNG company. I have impostor syndrome all the time. Why? Because I measure myself against 1) role models that are ahead of me in many ways - I've always do…

> My fallacy is that there is a billion things that I am good at, but I don't consider them difficult (how could they be, if I am good at them)

I see you've rediscovered Rothbard's law: "People tend to specialise in what they're worst at." (Because anything too easy seems like it's not worth doing)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jul/27/change-...

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#292

Post by DoreenMichele »

Actual impostors don't have imposter syndrome because they are talented at the only thing that matters to them: Screwing over everyone else for personal gain. And they have a track record proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that they know exactly what they are doing in that regard.

Talented people get imposter syndrome in part because it's hard to find good metrics to be confident in when people around you say "It can't be done" and then don't believe you when you say "It can be done. I know because I've done it."

Talented people often find their limits by slamming into a metaphorical wall at 100 miles an hour because they have so often heard "You can't do that" when they could that actually hitting their limit is the only real test. But doing that comes at a psychological, emotional and sometimes social cost. It hurts like a bitch and not something you want to keep doing.

It's easy to steal from other people. It's hard to study something for years, contemplate how it works, find a way to benefit without shafting other people.

And if no one believes you, no one adopts your thing. If it doesn't get adopted, you have no proof you are right.

Etc.

It can be hard to do something original in the real world. Much easier to be a con artist and to feel confident you know exactly what you are doing because all the other fools bought your BS and people are still buying it.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#293

Post by dragonwriter »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #292

Actual impostors don't have imposter syndrome because they are talented at the only thing that matters to them: Screwing over everyone else for personal gain. And they have a track record proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that they know exactly what they are doing in that regard. Talented people get imposter syndrome in part because it's hard to find good metrics to be confident in when people around you say "It can…

> Actual impostors don't have imposter syndrome

Actual imposters van have imposter syndrome (though it will be relative to being an imposter, not the thing they are pretending to be.)

> because they are talented at the only thing that matters to them: Screwing over everyone else for personal gain.

(1) Just because you are an imposter doesn't mean that is the only thing that matters to you.

(2) Just because you are an imposter doesn't mean you are talented at it; there's lots of talentless imposters who aren't very successful at it.

(3) And, most importantly, just because you are talented at the thing that matters to you doesn't mean you can't have imposter syndrome relative to it.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#294

Post by wombatmobile »

nonbirithm wrote: post #266
wombatmobile wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel that hiding behind a notion of imposter syndrome erases notions of personal responsibility when things actually go wrong Can you say where your sense of personal responsibility comes from? Did you have any personal influences or role models who taught you this protocol? Are there any examples that come to mind that you can succinctly describe here, in a way that shows relevance to the main points you are mak…

Succinctly, writing this response. I don't always feel that I have the necessary skills to make properly reasoned arguments in general, but instead tend to have a habitual drive to just say whatever is on my mind in the hopes that it will be heard but not necessarily challenged, maybe in the way some bloggers treat their content as a feed of stream-of-consciousness thought. When someone does want to discuss what I sa…

Thank you for sharing that.

I think the dialog you describe would be familiar to other people from their own thoughts.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#295

Post by anovikov »

deanCommie wrote: post #77

A lot of the discussion here is treating impostor syndrome and qualifications as binary: You're either qualified or not. And your evaluation of your skills is either above your actual skills or not. But it's more nuanced than that. I'm a Principal Engineer at a FAAMNG company. I have impostor syndrome all the time. Why? Because I measure myself against 1) role models that are ahead of me in many ways - I've always do…

Impostor syndrome is only a problem if you need to sell yourself. If you are a freelance developer or a salesman in an outsourcing company you absolutely need to make every effort and probably work with professionals to get rid of it because it's killing your life. But you are not. I don't think in your case it's a problem at all.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#296

Post by jvvw »

lhorie wrote: post #258
deanCommie wrote: post #77

A lot of the discussion here is treating impostor syndrome and qualifications as binary: You're either qualified or not. And your evaluation of your skills is either above your actual skills or not. But it's more nuanced than that. I'm a Principal Engineer at a FAAMNG company. I have impostor syndrome all the time. Why? Because I measure myself against 1) role models that are ahead of me in many ways - I've always do…

Here's an unpopular opinion: this whole thing about impostor syndrome honestly seems like a thinly veiled humble brag. The narrative seems to be "nobody's perfect, but I am aware that I have imperfections so brownie points for me". IMHO, there's no real correlation between confidence and ability. There are extremely capable athletes with terrible ego problems and there are people that legitimately fall into death spi…

But most people with imposter syndrome don't talk about it I assume? And the people who do are mostly just trying to say that it is normal to feel like that.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#297

Post by dougSF70 »

deanCommie wrote: post #77

A lot of the discussion here is treating impostor syndrome and qualifications as binary: You're either qualified or not. And your evaluation of your skills is either above your actual skills or not. But it's more nuanced than that. I'm a Principal Engineer at a FAAMNG company. I have impostor syndrome all the time. Why? Because I measure myself against 1) role models that are ahead of me in many ways - I've always do…

I totally empathise with the thought "I know this, so how can it be difficult to know". The only thing to do is to continually learn new things, and become the BEST at that.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#298

Post by 123pie123 »

deanCommie wrote: post #269
123pie123 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to most of the things you've said for me, my imposter syndrome comes mainly when I look around and see everyone working hard and struggling to do stuff well and I feel like I'm not even in 2nd gear and doing as well. So I think I feel like I'm only putting in less then 25% effort and getting 100% of the normal results (relative to others) - it feels wrong, it's like finishing a test or exam too soon and…

It sounds like you are not being challenged enough. Look for a new role or a new company?

I'm a contractor/ consultant I do spend about 1-2 years at different companies and I do pick the most challenging projects - typically modifying old stuff with no documentation

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#299

Post by 123pie123 »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #251
123pie123 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to most of the things you've said for me, my imposter syndrome comes mainly when I look around and see everyone working hard and struggling to do stuff well and I feel like I'm not even in 2nd gear and doing as well. So I think I feel like I'm only putting in less then 25% effort and getting 100% of the normal results (relative to others) - it feels wrong, it's like finishing a test or exam too soon and…

Used to be a midrange programmer who others thought as brilliant. It was hard to start two decades ago, but always looking for a challenge meant consistent growth for years. After five years it felt too easy, like cheating. My peers would struggle for a week with what I could deliver in an afternoon. Seeking better opportunities I migrated to web development, and boy, it's hard to be a novice again. Everyone I worked…

the money is ok/ good in the field I've choosen, so moving would mean a decrease in money,

I do work with a lot of cybersec people and boy are they under a lot of pressure with badly designed applications - saying that it's amazing how many of the sec people do not even bother with learning the very basics eg like how TLS really works

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#300

Post by agumonkey »

deanCommie wrote: post #274
agumonkey wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a strange position. I'm burnt out on every side of every candles from trying too hard too long with no results (due to life chaos, lack of luck, bad choices, who knows). To survive I took brainless jobs and I find myself in a different form of pain, being eroded by uneducated, learning-resistant cogs. Right now reading you say "measuring my self against people ahead of me" feels tempting, even after all the pr…

re: PPS. More than you know, but going into detail about my weird and unorthodox working style would reveal too much personal info. re: PS. I should clarify. I was a damn good programmer who could pump out clean, readable, maintainable code, faster than most. But only once I found myself in a job I loved surrounded by people who encouraged learning, were curious, and loved to teach me. You gotta find your tribe. Don'…

I often have the 'find the right tribe' idea in my head; it's staggering how important it is to find the right people.
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