The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed • Hacker News Board

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#181

Post by Jd » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 12:49 AM UTC

chailatte wrote: post #123

wheels wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the problems of setting a precedent. I don't, actually. If the financial industry has taught us one thing, it's that you can insure anything . Let's assume that this is a very rare occurrence and that the total cost of making this right (say, tops $100k?) can be amortized over the profit being generated. I have a hard time understanding how it'd be rocket surgery to get something in place to handle these…

AirBnb is illegal in some of the states (and when states/hotel industry/cities get a wind of this story, it will probably be illegal in all the states), so I doubt any legitimate insurance companies will be handling this affair.

Let alone apartment complexes. The one time I used Airbnb the person whose room I rented told me I could use all the facilities of the apartment complex for free (laundry, exercise rooms, pool, etc. etc.). I'm sure the folks managing the apt complex would love it if they knew that was going on...

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#182

Post by hnsmurf » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 12:50 AM UTC

If I were AirBnB I'd be talking to an insurance company right now about offering supplemental insurance to renters. AirBnB could make a nice chunk, the way Best Buy does when it gets you to purchase those stupid protection plans, and simultaneously offer users peace of mind that this will at least be taken care of if it happens to them,

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#183

Post by joe24pack » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 12:54 AM UTC

rluhar wrote: post #172

dxbydt wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be surprised - see this : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-16/death-derivatives-e... Other examples in the entertainment industry - say there exists insurance that your movie will earn a minimum revenue say 25 million usd. Your competitor simply buys those contracts and then trash talks your movie on the opening night ( by simply paying out bloggers and amateur journas some pittance sum of money ). You…

Reminds of the plot of "The Producers". Sometimes real life can be stranger than fiction..

"Spring Time for Hitler" ... it's sure to be a "HIT"

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#184

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Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#185

Post by NathanKP » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:03 AM UTC

friendstock wrote: post #168

danilocampos wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conveniently, you fail to address the point upon which this whole issue is predicated: " You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms." No one thinks anyone from Airbnb blew up her home, dude. I'm not paid well enough to know if this meets the standard of tortious negligence. Yet it was negligence. Ha…

Actually, I've used AirBNB multiple times -- hosts CAN talk to the guests... but it's done through the AirBNB messaging system which actively removes real identifiers such as email addresses and phone numbers.

I can back this up. I've used AirBNB before as well, and good hosts generally ask for some details about you before they approve your request to stay in their home. They generally ask a few background questions, why you are visiting the area, etc.

You can tell them your name, and they can look you up on FB if need be to do a background check. It is false to say that AirBNB does not allow hosts to communicate with guests, and it is fully possible for hosts to check up on the background of their guests.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#186

Post by rwhitman » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:05 AM UTC

So I definitely got partly scammed in NYC a few months ago by a friendly-seeming girl who found an apartment for the weekend on AirBnB and then promptly turned around and posted it for sublet on Craigslist as her own, raking in thousands in cash "security deposit" money from a number of un-suspecting apartment seekers.

I love Airbnb but there are so many loopholes for disaster like this. As Airbnb goes mainstream, I expect there will be many more similarly unhappy stories on their way...

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#187

Post by NathanKP » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:07 AM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #78

prostoalex wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do we draw the line on decency? * Guest trashes the place, takes off with host's camera, iPod, laptop, jewelry - should AirBnb chip in for the cost? * Guest scratches a hardwood floor that's pretty expensive to fix - should AirBnb chip in for the cost? Or just buy a rug to cover it? What if it's some Mongolian oak that's custom-ordered at $5000 per sq.ft.? * Guest overflows the toilet, causing some floor damage…

I'm willing to go on record as saying the line is drawn at a sociopath willfully destroying someone's home and stealing their identity. It's pretty simple. If the user can't pre-screen and validate the guest's identity before renting, the onus is on Airbnb to ensure that they will not destroy your home . Besides, that's the only way this company can work at scale. Without trust in the system, who will use it?

It is definitely possible for the host to pre-screen and validate the guest's identity. I've used AirBNB as a guest before and I was screened by hosts. They asked questions about why I was in the area, whether I smoked/drank, etc. I told them my name, allowing them to look me up on FB, Twitter, find my personal blog, etc. You'd better believe I looked up their names as well to make sure I wasn't inadvertently staying with someone who was a felon.

If your argument is based on the assumption that hosts can not screen guests then your argument is wrong.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#188

Post by URSpider94 » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:08 AM UTC

Cushman wrote: post #134

scott_s wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Some" fraudulent damages? If people figure out a reliable means to defraud you, they will do it until you fix the problem. And, congratulations, now your primary focus is fraud detection . You're now an insurance company. There's also the fact that insurance companies are subject to many laws and regulations that other businesses are not.

You're missing my point— "Fraud detection" in Airbnb's case means "ensuring that owners and renters are who they say they are." Surely that should already be a primary focus of theirs.

Why? And How?

Are they going to require faxing in photocopies of ID? Run credit checks? All this would do is to verify that a person with this information exists. This wouldn't stop a bad guy from using someone else's identification to register, and none of this addresses whether the renter has the legal right to rent the property.

And, once they are that deep in the process, if Airbnb is making any representations to their customers about this kind of vetting, then they are exposing themselves to liability if something goes wrong.

Right now, they are content to verify that the customer and landlord have valid credit cards / bank accounts, and that's that.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#189

Post by ForrestN » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:08 AM UTC

mattdeboard wrote: post #129

ForrestN wrote: post #37

I feel really bad for all involved, including AirBnB. They must feel awful, and this is obviously incredibly stressful. I agree with the consensus that they have thus far failed to use this as a marketing opportunity (a la Tylenol) or even to mitigate much of the damage. That said, I would be absolutely fascinated to learn how this is playing out. It would be a huge service to the community for someone to release a b…

Why on earth would you feel bad for AirBnB? They're not paying out any money, they're not taking any responsibility, and for that they are receiving a lot of negative reaction. If you feel bad because they are getting negative reaction, that is ridiculous. They are simply reaping what they've sewn in this instance. They could be out there making this right but instead they're hiding in their offices. Not even any mea…

I suppose I take a sympathetic attitude in general, but it's heightened because these guys are doing something I, and other people around here, aspire to. In a relatively minor way, I relate to them, and as I said I bet they feel awful. I don't feel as bad for them as I do for the victim, obviously, and I agree that they haven't handled this the way I might have. But having something you've worked so hard on lead to something like this because of some random asshole kids must be really, really frustrating and upsetting. You can sympathize with people without agreeing with them.

Re: The Moment Of Truth For Airbnb As User’s Home Is Utterly Trashed

#190

Post by NathanKP » Thu, Jul 28, 2011, 1:11 AM UTC

chailatte wrote: post #161

danilocampos wrote: post #20

"I spoke to Airbnb about EJ’s situation. They won’t reimburse her for damages, they say, and they do not insure against losses. They are helping police track down the person who did this, but their help ends there." ... Fuck. That. I don't care what the long-term implications are, I don't care about precedent, I don't care about policy, I don't care about cost . If my business does this to someone I make it right . E…

Personally I don't know why people get a hard-on about the story of Airbnb. So they sold a fad product (cereal) at the right time to make a little bit of money. Just tells me they have no moral integrity (which explains the craigslist email spamming). So they struggled to make rent in SF a while. Who told them to stay in an expensive city with no savings? That's bad financial planning, and they could've bootstrapped…

I really don't understand why people are laying blame on AirBNB for what happened to her. AirBNB did not help the criminal destroy her home. On what basis do you make the statement that they helped "tear her life to shreds."? The fact that they helped her list her home and conduct business with this individual? That is like blaming the ISP for allowing a DDOS or a malicious blackhat attack on a server.