YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#281

Post by iammisc » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #246

kube-system wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he meant that "cloth masks aren't good enough " he could have said that. But he's a senator. His statement was a dog whistle to his base. They're not looking for an argument that people should be wearing N95s, they want to discredit all masking. The word "prevent" is a red herring -- nothing is 100% -- the goal is to decrease infection, not prevent it.

I find mentioning dog whistles as an argument to discredit someone unconvincing. It’s a way to twist someone's words to whatever you want. Dog whistle = Someone said something but since I can read minds I know he/she meant something else.

Yes, in times like this, other's apparent power to read minds is simply amazing. What I would give to have such ability!

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#282

Post by syshum » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #23

gibba999 wrote: post #13

This seems exceptionally problematic. I absolutely think everyone should use masks, but the science is clearly not in on the effectiveness of cloth masks. It's a valid area of discussion. My own opinion is that everyone should use N95-equivalent masks, but others are entitled to their opinions too. We have democratic and civic processes to decide what should be mandated, what should be recommended, what should be dis…

> Simply shutting people up convinces no one I mean, effectively shutting up one side of a discussion will surely convince most people to agree with the side being heard. This just isn't effective (yet?).

It is not, it is creating platform echo chambers.

The video is not taken offline, it was just taken off YT. So you end up with silo's of information where different groups of people have a different reality, which IMO is even more dangerous than misinformation, because it makes it harder to see alternate opinions if all your info is silo'ed

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#283

Post by smorgusofborg » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

tw600040 wrote: post #227

patmcc wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I for one want to hear his expertise, even if it disagrees with the conclusions you've already made. That's fine. YouTube doesn't want to host it, because in their view it's harmful. What's the problem?

So if some restaurant business says X (gays, christians, asians etc) not welcome we don't want to host them, that's fine too?

The groups you cite are civil rights relevant. Do you think Rand Paul's thoughts are an expression of his religion or evidence of a handicap?

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#284

Post by antonvs » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #188

ryandrake wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrases "doesn't work" and "doesn't prevent" have become staples of the COVID disinformation toolkit. Anything that is not exactly 100% effective transforms into "doesn't work" in the narrative. Educated experts will never say something is 100% effective, so this is always an easy way for detractors to "prove" that the experts agree XYZ doesn't work. EDIT: Other examples: Some people have gotten pregnant while on…

I'm not sure this tack is sufficient to defend YouTube's policy. This is quite close to arguing that a sitting senator shouldn't have opinions on what government policy is meant to be achieving. Rand Paul is (1) elected (2) holds a medical license. YouTube is suspending him because (1) he is disagreeing with government policy and (2) they don't like his medical opinion. I think it is fair to say you are defending (1)…

His qualifications are irrelevant if he's deliberately putting out misleading information in pursuit of a political goal.

Also, a medical license doesn't qualify a person as an epidemiologist or any other such expert, especially given that his license is in opthalmology.

Let's also not forget that he created a bogus certification board, started by family members, to certify his ability to practice. He's not currently certified to practice medicine by any legitimate medical organization.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#285

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #255

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are actively spreading disinformation. SARS-2 ("covid") will never be extinct. It is completely infeasible to eradicate a highly infectious zoonotic respiratory virus w/ abundant animal reservoirs. > but cloth masks work very well for reducing the likelihood that a covid-positive person will transmit the virus You cannot possibly honestly make this statement in good faith, considering that there has only ever bee…

Your science and citations and reason don't matter on the internet. Rand Paul is a medical doctor and the person you're replying to is a musician. Yet the musician has watched the mainstream news media and therefore determines that their opinion is unquestionable. Actual scientific debate (which is a fundamental process of the scientific method)..... is not even remotely an option to these people.. You're talking to…

A Medical Doctor certified in his field (ophthalmology, a little different to epidemiology) by the licensing body HE created, because the actual licensing body for ophthalmologists would not certify him because he would not (and according to some, could not) maintain the required standards/knowledge.

Indeed, his own licensing body (which to be clear has not been accepted by any organizations) utilizes a certifying exam _written by_ Rand Paul, and is open book. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this exam, he did pass.

Oh, he was also the first member of Senator to test positive for COVID. And after being exposed, and tested, continued to attend Senate events and lunches and use Senate facilities including the gym because in his "expert opinion" it was "extremely unlikely" he had COVID.

So let's perhaps dial back your appeal to authority some.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#286

Post by MarkLowenstein » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #8

‘masks’ is about as vague as ‘food’ There are good and bad masks, just as there is good and bad food. A cloth mask will not protect you against an aerosol (note: am a researcher who has seen the electron microscopy images proving this), that is why N95s are mandated with no beards in any ISO work environment where you are subjected to aerosol risk. The inability of public dialog on this nuance is just a reflection of…

Remember the concept of nerd-sniping? https://xkcd.com/356/ 99% of people, including the sharp and educated people at HN, zealously debate the merits of masks, or the proper priority of individual rights, etc.

But take a step above all of this for a second. Let's say your mask reduces the speed of the spread. Say you wear an N95, and you reduce your chances of getting it in any one day, to near 0. Well that will work...until you take it off. One day, you will have to take it off. And the virus will be right there waiting for you.

Masks may "work" in terms of slowing things, but they don't work in terms of increasing your lifespan more than a few minutes on average, or ending the pandemic. Vaccines do that, or lots of people surviving an infection.

Remember that for all that time in Nov-Jan last winter in the West, everybody and his dog was wearing a mask. Yet more people than ever got it anyway.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#287

Post by nickthemagicman » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

IIAOPSW wrote: post #229

corndoge wrote: post #3

> YouTube indicated that examples of the offending content in the video included the line: “Most of the masks you get over the counter don’t work. They don’t prevent infection.” > It also included the quote: “Trying to shape human behavior isn’t the same as following the actual science which tells us that cloth masks don’t work.” Regardless of what you think about YouTube's misinformation policy, I don't think this i…

It is misinformation. Masks (cloth or otherwise) were meant to reduce infectiousness, not completely prevent the possibility of infection. Masks (cloth or otherwise) do in fact reduce infectiousness. The misinformation is the implication that masks are pointless because you can still get infected. The point of masks is to get the probability of spreading it down by some multiple, not to be a personal not-my-problem-a…

There's so much contradictory science on what you're claiming as ultimate truth.

There's paper saying masks don't work there's paper saying masks do work.

This is not a conclusive settled fact.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#288

Post by newacct583 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

convery wrote: post #247

IIAOPSW wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is misinformation. Masks (cloth or otherwise) were meant to reduce infectiousness, not completely prevent the possibility of infection. Masks (cloth or otherwise) do in fact reduce infectiousness. The misinformation is the implication that masks are pointless because you can still get infected. The point of masks is to get the probability of spreading it down by some multiple, not to be a personal not-my-problem-a…

His comment was on masks reducing the risk of you getting infected, not infecting others. Which is a selfish point, but nonetheless a correct one.

> His comment was on masks reducing the risk of you getting infected, not infecting others.

His comment was extremely ambiguous and certainly sounded to me like he was claiming masks don't work as a tool to fight the pandemic, or at least carefully choosing his works to align himself with the factions in his base that believe they don't.

If you want to say the words "masks don't work", in a screed arguing against masks mandates, you need to be a whole lot more careful than that. And Paul isn't a careless guy, he knew what the fuck he was saying.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#289

Post by chabes » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #255

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are actively spreading disinformation. SARS-2 ("covid") will never be extinct. It is completely infeasible to eradicate a highly infectious zoonotic respiratory virus w/ abundant animal reservoirs. > but cloth masks work very well for reducing the likelihood that a covid-positive person will transmit the virus You cannot possibly honestly make this statement in good faith, considering that there has only ever bee…

Your science and citations and reason don't matter on the internet. Rand Paul is a medical doctor and the person you're replying to is a musician. Yet the musician has watched the mainstream news media and therefore determines that their opinion is unquestionable. Actual scientific debate (which is a fundamental process of the scientific method)..... is not even remotely an option to these people.. You're talking to…

Rand Paul was an eye doctor.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#290

Post by version_five » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #205

NonContro wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of this is about 'masks' and really about Rand Paul calling for mass civil disobedience against COVID restrictions? Here's the full video: https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1424399282447298563

mass civil disobedience against COVID restrictions is not only awesome, it a very explicit and central civic value of the American political mythology. I can't emphasize enough how bizarre and soviet-esque that this is even on the table as a contentious issue these days.

I see you'd been here a lot longer than I have so you know you're fighting a lost battle. I am surprised how tech folks, that I always thought had a libertarian bent, have gone full on religious conformist due to covid. I like to read HN for the tech discussions and have a bad habit of getting drawn in to these silly religious things. All I can say is I hope the mainstream extremist view here is not representative of real people.

But of course Covid is killing people, so we should abandon centuries of liberal democratic tradition and hard fought freedoms to continue the great work we've done stopping it.