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Australia is becoming a surveillance state

ia.acs.org.au

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Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#41

Post by _abox »

thr0w72594 wrote: post #31
_abox wrote: post #18

Unfortunately we're all becoming surveillance states :( So many European countries are now requiring people to ID themselves and get a QR code scanned at every shop, every restaurant, every public transport journey. All combining to a detailed digital record of who has been where. Under the guise of protecting against COVID but who says this will disappear once the pandemic is over? I think we're going too far to acc…

The scanning already isn't necessary . What makes you think everyone getting vaccinated would cut back on government surveillance? You would just have to check in with your vaccine passport to prove that you can enter rather than check in for contact tracing; exact same problem either way. The "threat of terrorism" has long been used by media and governments in a cynical way to demonize specific groups. The most comm…

> You would just have to check in with your vaccine passport to prove that you can enter rather than check in for contact tracing; exact same problem either way.

The QR code is the vaccine passport. The test with the 2-day validity is simply another way to get it temporarily.

And if everyone is vaccinated, why do we still need to do contact tracing? The idea was that it doesn't have enough hosts to reach R > 1 so it'll fizzle out anyway.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#42

Post by tasogare »

shell0x wrote: post #9
a0-prw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oz is part of the 5 eyes. The West in general, but especially the 5 eyes (anglosphere) have been waging an economic and propaganda war on China since Obama "pivoted east". Anti Chinese rhetoric in Oz media and from their politicians has been strident . It is quite possible that the 5 eyes are ramping up methods of internal control in expectation of a war with China.

Australia basically sold everything to China and gave the Darwin harbor away on a lease. The entire economy relies on selling real estate to rich foreign investors, international students, and mining. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/why-did-northern-terr... Australia thinks it can control China, but without the influx of Chinese money the place is finished IMO. When I landed at Sydney Airport in 2020, there we…

Capital plus immigration. I've been in WA a decade ago and I was surprised by the number of ethnic Chinese people everywhere. One day China will just have to push a button to turn the country into one of its province, without any need for war.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#43

Post by marcus_holmes »

a0-prw wrote: post #5
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #3

What real/perceived security risk is AU dealing with to justify all these legal changes? They seem relatively isolated from many of the threats facing the US/EU west regarding terrorism/extremism. Borders in AU are pretty naturally secured by oceans.

Oz is part of the 5 eyes. The West in general, but especially the 5 eyes (anglosphere) have been waging an economic and propaganda war on China since Obama "pivoted east". Anti Chinese rhetoric in Oz media and from their politicians has been strident . It is quite possible that the 5 eyes are ramping up methods of internal control in expectation of a war with China.

Also don't forget the racism. Aussies in general can be pretty racist, and the Chinese cop it especially. Politicians being "tough" on the Chinese (and then quietly selling off major chunks of Australia to them) seems to be a winning move.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#44

Post by [deleted] »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #37
jjgreen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These vaccination records are there already anyway They are, in the UK attached to you NHS number for example. But the question is, how you you force the non-compliant to comply? Form the set-difference of the NHS and national DBs, hunt down and inject the non-compliant? Sounds a bit police-statey to me. Or make daily life dependent on showing your NHS number? Easy to fake, so we'd need NHS photo id-cards to get a co…

> Or make daily life dependent on showing your NHS number? Easy to fake, so we'd need NHS photo id-cards to get a coffee, ... sounds a bit police-statey to me ... etc Exactly, yet this is exactly what Germany, France and Italy are doing right now. You need the QR code which contains your name / DOB + Photo ID

[deleted]

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#45

Post by madeofpalk »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #40
elevenoh wrote: post #7

>“[These laws] represent, in my view, significant expansions of the existing powers of law enforcement agencies away from a traditional focus on investigation and the collection of admissible evidence of specific offenses to disruption, to attack, to take-over, to take-down,” Dr Mann said. Yikes. This is like government being infested by cancel culture (attack w/ no evidence needed, pile on & take down). What phenome…

Australia has always been quietly very authoritarian. It tries to pretend that it's all beer and barbecue on the beach, but having an open alcohol container in a public place is illegal, and barbecues are only allowed in specific places (and the beach isn't one of them). There's a term for it: Wowsers [0] - people who police others' behaviour. The Wowsers and the Larrikins [1] battle for Australia's soul. The Wowsers…

> weird how a foundational myth of australia is that we’re a nation of subversive larrikins, when in actuality everyone here is an ultracop

@tfswebb https://twitter.com/tfswebb/status/976299234491121665

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#47

Post by makomk »

_abox wrote: post #41
thr0w72594 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scanning already isn't necessary . What makes you think everyone getting vaccinated would cut back on government surveillance? You would just have to check in with your vaccine passport to prove that you can enter rather than check in for contact tracing; exact same problem either way. The "threat of terrorism" has long been used by media and governments in a cynical way to demonize specific groups. The most comm…

> You would just have to check in with your vaccine passport to prove that you can enter rather than check in for contact tracing; exact same problem either way. The QR code is the vaccine passport. The test with the 2-day validity is simply another way to get it temporarily. And if everyone is vaccinated, why do we still need to do contact tracing? The idea was that it doesn't have enough hosts to reach R > 1 so it'…

It is not possible to reduce R below 1 through vaccination alone with the current vaccines and the current Delta variant. The press has had a tendency to downplay or even outright lie about this, especially in countries with lower vaccine uptakes where it's politically convenient, but the British press and medical experts seem to be a bit more upfront with this now that 75% of adults are fully vaccinated and almost 90% have had at least one shot: https://www.politico.eu/article/herd-immunity-not-a-possibil... (This is about the goal countries like Australia and South Korea have been pointing to as the point where they can start rolling back restrictions.)

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#48

Post by Guthur »

hexa22 wrote: post #10
RileyJames wrote: post #8

Since 2015 and the meta data laws it’s no wonder things have continued to get worse. There was practically no opposition to the meta data laws. No popular resistance. No protests. It’s a non-issue for the public or political class. The extent to which non-tech people in my social circles care is to switch to signal. Not that they’ve stopped using the other tools. There seems to be a “what else can we do” attitude. Un…

There are far bigger issues in Australia right now to care about meta data logging. Climate change and now the vaccine delay consume all of the publics attention. Metadata logging is a theoretical issue while the lack of vaccine supplies is a very real and immediate issue.

The meta data happened long ago and was pushed through with the most flimsy of pretence.

I remember it was after the shooting in Sydney by an Iranian refugee who had not only just been in custody but had arrive under the pretence that he was an Iranian spy seeking asylum. They had every reason to surveil the guy under normal laws but used it as an excuse to justify a drag net approach. It was obviously an Orwellian trick but no one cared.

Freedom should not be so whimsically thrown away, getting it back will be impossible through normal means.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#49

Post by newsclues »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #3

What real/perceived security risk is AU dealing with to justify all these legal changes? They seem relatively isolated from many of the threats facing the US/EU west regarding terrorism/extremism. Borders in AU are pretty naturally secured by oceans.

China.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#50

Post by _abox »

makomk wrote: post #47
_abox wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You would just have to check in with your vaccine passport to prove that you can enter rather than check in for contact tracing; exact same problem either way. The QR code is the vaccine passport. The test with the 2-day validity is simply another way to get it temporarily. And if everyone is vaccinated, why do we still need to do contact tracing? The idea was that it doesn't have enough hosts to reach R > 1 so it'…

It is not possible to reduce R below 1 through vaccination alone with the current vaccines and the current Delta variant. The press has had a tendency to downplay or even outright lie about this, especially in countries with lower vaccine uptakes where it's politically convenient, but the British press and medical experts seem to be a bit more upfront with this now that 75% of adults are fully vaccinated and almost 9…

But what about the current vaccines + Delta + some minor measures?

This is what works in most EU countries now.

I'd much rather deal with some minor distancing instead of having to ID myself everywhere I go.

Also, most people in the UK have been vaccinated with AstraZeneca which is much less effective (and this Pollard guy has a huge commercial interest in that so this won't factor into his story)

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