Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australia is becoming a surveillance state

ia.acs.org.au

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 437 posts

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#31

Post by thr0w72594 »

_abox wrote: post #18

Unfortunately we're all becoming surveillance states :( So many European countries are now requiring people to ID themselves and get a QR code scanned at every shop, every restaurant, every public transport journey. All combining to a detailed digital record of who has been where. Under the guise of protecting against COVID but who says this will disappear once the pandemic is over? I think we're going too far to acc…

The scanning already isn't necessary. What makes you think everyone getting vaccinated would cut back on government surveillance? You would just have to check in with your vaccine passport to prove that you can enter rather than check in for contact tracing; exact same problem either way.

The "threat of terrorism" has long been used by media and governments in a cynical way to demonize specific groups. The most common act of terrorism in Western countries in the past few years has been arson of historical churches, yet we almost never see mainstream reporting. On the other hand, we are constantly told of the "[insert group] terror threat" that turns up no actual terrorist acts.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#32

Post by jjgreen »

_abox wrote: post #29
jjgreen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're going too far to accomodate those who won't get vaccinated. If everyone gets it, this scanning wouldn't be necessary. How do you force everyone to get it without the apparatus of the police state?

These vaccination records are there already anyway, in Europe most countries have a national health system that knows exactly who has it and who doesn't. But it's not as bad as a detailed step by step log of every person's activities every day. Also, I think some level of noncompliance should be accepted. The vaccines don't work 100% anyway, these are just a few more percent. The number of people opposed to vaccinati…

These vaccination records are there already anyway

They are, in the UK attached to you NHS number for example. But the question is, how you you force the non-compliant to comply? Form the set-difference of the NHS and national DBs, hunt down and inject the non-compliant? Sounds a bit police-statey to me. Or make daily life dependent on showing your NHS number? Easy to fake, so we'd need NHS photo id-cards to get a coffee, ... sounds a bit police-statey to me ... etc

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#33

Post by jjgreen »

Accacin wrote: post #28
b3n wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and get a QR code scanned at every shop, every restaurant How does this work for those who don't own a smartphone?

Here in the UK you do not need to scan, you can just write down your phone number and name. It's a legal requirement for the information to be accurate though, I think.

I believe that it is (rather, was) your "contact details", not everyone has a phone; and I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for giving false details

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#34

Post by vermilingua »

rbut wrote: post #20

One theory I read once is that Australia leads the way with these laws for the other members of the five eyes to eventually follow. Is there any truth in this?

The scarier but more likely version of that theory is that the Australian Govt leads the way so the other 4Eyes don't have to follow. Similar to the recent AN0N bust, as our citizen protections are more lax, the FBI etc can route data through Australia where the Govt can intercept it; once intercepted it can be shared with FVEY without consequence.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#35

Post by CTDOCodebases »

RileyJames wrote: post #8

Since 2015 and the meta data laws it’s no wonder things have continued to get worse. There was practically no opposition to the meta data laws. No popular resistance. No protests. It’s a non-issue for the public or political class. The extent to which non-tech people in my social circles care is to switch to signal. Not that they’ve stopped using the other tools. There seems to be a “what else can we do” attitude. Un…

I blame NewsCorp and Nine Entertainment as well as the “she’ll be right” attitude of most fellow Aussies. It’s kind of funny the way the media cried when the Federal Police raided the ABC and they cried victim. Yet dodgy law after dodgy law gets passed and no one bats an eyelid.

The relationship the media has with government is disturbing but I guess they are bought and paid for now that the News Media Bargaining Code is a thing.

With due credit to your friends they kind of have a point with the Assistance and Acess Act 2018 in effect. How do they know that the signal app they are downloading is the real deal.

Read up about Firearm Prohibition Orders in NSW too. No need for judges or warrants if you have a rookie police officer and a police commissioner.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#36

Post by GekkePrutser »

b3n wrote: post #27
_abox wrote: post #18

Unfortunately we're all becoming surveillance states :( So many European countries are now requiring people to ID themselves and get a QR code scanned at every shop, every restaurant, every public transport journey. All combining to a detailed digital record of who has been where. Under the guise of protecting against COVID but who says this will disappear once the pandemic is over? I think we're going too far to acc…

> and get a QR code scanned at every shop, every restaurant How does this work for those who don't own a smartphone?

You can print the QR code too.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#37

Post by GekkePrutser »

jjgreen wrote: post #32
_abox wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These vaccination records are there already anyway, in Europe most countries have a national health system that knows exactly who has it and who doesn't. But it's not as bad as a detailed step by step log of every person's activities every day. Also, I think some level of noncompliance should be accepted. The vaccines don't work 100% anyway, these are just a few more percent. The number of people opposed to vaccinati…

These vaccination records are there already anyway They are, in the UK attached to you NHS number for example. But the question is, how you you force the non-compliant to comply? Form the set-difference of the NHS and national DBs, hunt down and inject the non-compliant? Sounds a bit police-statey to me. Or make daily life dependent on showing your NHS number? Easy to fake, so we'd need NHS photo id-cards to get a co…

> Or make daily life dependent on showing your NHS number? Easy to fake, so we'd need NHS photo id-cards to get a coffee, ... sounds a bit police-statey to me ... etc

Exactly, yet this is exactly what Germany, France and Italy are doing right now.

You need the QR code which contains your name / DOB + Photo ID

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#38

Post by inglor_cz »

rajamaka wrote: post #13
a0-prw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oz is part of the 5 eyes. The West in general, but especially the 5 eyes (anglosphere) have been waging an economic and propaganda war on China since Obama "pivoted east". Anti Chinese rhetoric in Oz media and from their politicians has been strident . It is quite possible that the 5 eyes are ramping up methods of internal control in expectation of a war with China.

As incompetent as Australia's current leadership is, I still have reservations that they would be naive enough to get involved in a war with their greatest trading partner.

If China gets into war with anyone sizable (in practice, the U.S.), the trade flow will stop anyway.

US stayed out of WWI for three years, but American trade with Germany was toast once the British started blocking German ships and ports.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#39

Post by _abox »

mandmandam wrote: post #30
_abox wrote: post #18

Unfortunately we're all becoming surveillance states :( So many European countries are now requiring people to ID themselves and get a QR code scanned at every shop, every restaurant, every public transport journey. All combining to a detailed digital record of who has been where. Under the guise of protecting against COVID but who says this will disappear once the pandemic is over? I think we're going too far to acc…

> I think we're going too far to accomodate those who won't get vaccinated. If everyone gets it, this scanning wouldn't be necessary If every last man woman and child on the planet get vaccinated; if every mouse, cat, dog, ferret, pig, monkey and deer get vaccinated too, the potential for a breakout vaccine resistant infection is still there . Also, there is still virtually zero talk of implementing vaccine exemption…

> My country hasn't hired more nurses, built more ICU beds, legislated for or supported better air circulation indoors, or subsidised antigen testing - but they have implemented a vaccine passport for cafes and restaurants, against the advice of our council on civil liberties, our data privacy chief, and the WHO covid envoy. We're told it's a temporary measure, and I have no doubt that it will be as "temporary" as the Patriot Act.

Yeah this is what bothers me too. We're bound to see some more waves and continued pressure on the health system for a long time to come yet nothing seems to be done to actually fix that.

When Covid first hid the excuse was "we can't ramp up that quickly" but now that it's here to stay that excuse is still there. But every week they wait makes the wait even longer.

I agree natural immunity is good too. It's automatically adaptive to new variants (and the vaccine can help there as it'll be much less risky to get covid so everyone gets exposed to it a bit).

What I said about accomodating the unvaccinated, this was mainly because the government presents it as such. "We can't force vaccination so we have to check everyone every time". So many basic rights thrown in the trash without any debate. I agree there's probably ulterior motives. And I know it likely won't go away, this is why I'm so strongly against.

I think in the long term I will move to a country that doesn't do this. I've already been moving around all my life.

Re: Australia is becoming a surveillance state

#40

Post by marcus_holmes »

elevenoh wrote: post #7

>“[These laws] represent, in my view, significant expansions of the existing powers of law enforcement agencies away from a traditional focus on investigation and the collection of admissible evidence of specific offenses to disruption, to attack, to take-over, to take-down,” Dr Mann said. Yikes. This is like government being infested by cancel culture (attack w/ no evidence needed, pile on & take down). What phenome…

Australia has always been quietly very authoritarian. It tries to pretend that it's all beer and barbecue on the beach, but having an open alcohol container in a public place is illegal, and barbecues are only allowed in specific places (and the beach isn't one of them).

There's a term for it: Wowsers [0] - people who police others' behaviour. The Wowsers and the Larrikins [1] battle for Australia's soul. The Wowsers are winning.

Appealing to Australia's Wowsers is always politically beneficial. Any law that strengthens police powers goes over really well.

And then add Murdoch, who owns all the newspapers, controls both major parties, and hates the internet with a passion (because it's destroying his business and power base).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wowser [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrikin

Post reply on HN