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Elementary OS 6 Odin

blog.elementary.io

141–150 of 321 posts

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#141
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the use case for running PuTTY on Linux? I'm curious.

Window management. It's basically a way to segregate a general terminal (usually used for local stuff) from a window specifically for SSH. For me this was a much bigger issue when I was on Windows, but also in Ubuntu which groups programs together similarly to the Windows taskbar. I'm on i3 now mostly and just use a normal terminal for ssh, but for quite some time I was using putty on linux specifically for window ma…

Sounds like a use case for tmux?

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#142
post #118
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web is just GNOME Web.

..ok. So they didn't have to put much/any effort in? Still though, how many users are actually going to use 'GNOME Web'? If I installed this, even for an elderly relative or whatever rather than myself, probably my next step would be to install Firefox. (And for others it might be Chrome of course.)

Why? Gnome web is actually simpler and easier to use than Firefox for elderly people. It performs surprisingly well, too.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#143

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

This isn’t really different from macOS. Ever tried to run a Mac GTK app, or one that uses XQuartz? It’s just that more people target macOS.

XQuartz and GTK apps on MacOS are the exception. A bigger problem with regards to inconsistent UI/UX stems from Electron apps and apps like Firefox which implement its own context menus, for example, and don't interact with the OS with things like Applescript, which Chromium browsers and Safari do. Still, there's a lot of applications that do respect the OS paradigms for design and user experience. Interfacing with applications is fairly consistent, though this has been degrading for some time with the rise of Electron.

On linux, there is no paradigm to stray from and there's no consistent design language or UX because of the fractured nature of its ecosystem. There are incredibly well made applications for KDE, GTK, and Electron, all with their own ideas of what UX should be and what UI it should look like.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#144

Looking great, I've been a long time Mac user and I think I actually like elementary's evolution of the UI styling (from when it started as a pretty direct clone) better than I like Apple's in Big Sur. Tried elementary before (Luna and Freya IIRC) and while it hasn't replaced my Mac for development or my Windows desktop for gaming, I'm definitely keeping an eye on it. Can't help but notice that the Sound indicator's…

Long time Mac user (1992); I think the Mac UI peaked at Mavericks (some would argue Snow Leopard due to the dumb Save workflow in Lion). As soon as Yosemite started trying too hard to be minimal it started a descent into prioritizing style over UX. I haven't touched Big Sur yet and probably won't until I'm forced to with a new Mac. Looking at screenshots of Elementary, it's so much more obvious how things work and wh…

Another long-time Mac user, who is also increasingly frustrated with how dumbed down & bloated OSX is becoming [I'm sticking on Mavericks for the foreseeable future and only 'upgraded' from El Capitán because more and more of my apps were breaking after applying updates].

With all OSX Finder's faults and all the annoyances of the OS, I still think it's miles ahead of any Linux distro I've tried to get on with.

Two words "Quicklook" --OK. that's one word made of two. I find it incredible that no Linux desktop environment has something like this. Pressing spacebar to preview the content of a file without needing to open it first is something I do literally every single day and often multiple times. Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it?

That's my biggest bugbear with Linux desktops. Other annoyances are more vague. Mostly to do with the inconsistencies in the interface. Coming from something like OSX which, for all its faults, presents a completely consistent user interface, every Linux desktop I've tried [even the polished ones like Ubuntu & Mint] always have those annoying glitches & inconsistencies which just scream 'Designed by Committee' [which I suppose they are, to an extent].

As regards apps; a big part of what I do is graphic design and that pretty much rules Linux out for anything work-related. Whatever you think of Adobe, Photoshop and Illustrator just blow The Gimp [dire!] and Inkscape [tolerable but clunky] out of the water.

I did have high hopes that new kids on the block Affinity might bring their Photo and Designer [which actually do give Photoshop and Illustrator a run for their money] to Linux. But it seems they've decided to follow Adobe's lead and make thei offerings OSX & Windows only.

About the only quality graphic design app I've seen available for Linux is Krita. But it's more of a digital painting app than an image manipulation one. And, of course, no vector graphics.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

Sure, and everyone complains about that on Win10 because it sucks there, too. Windows the OS has improved greatly over the years, in many ways, but the UI has mostly not improved, or has even regressed, since, oh, I dunno, win98/2k. Maybe WinXP.

XP with the classic themes was the best. A while ago I did my best to get a decent browser that could display modern webpages running so perhaps I could use XP as a desktop. Nothing really works. Modern Java apps same thing, the JRE is frozen in time somewhere, .NET same thing. SSL isn't compatible. Perhaps one could compile a recent Wine, Mono/.NET or Java to XP and run some things.

Or perhaps better, use a windows theme for a linux desktop - and stick to gtk apps. https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time Mac user (1992); I think the Mac UI peaked at Mavericks (some would argue Snow Leopard due to the dumb Save workflow in Lion). As soon as Yosemite started trying too hard to be minimal it started a descent into prioritizing style over UX. I haven't touched Big Sur yet and probably won't until I'm forced to with a new Mac. Looking at screenshots of Elementary, it's so much more obvious how things work and wh…

Another long-time Mac user, who is also increasingly frustrated with how dumbed down & bloated OSX is becoming [I'm sticking on Mavericks for the foreseeable future and only 'upgraded' from El Capitán because more and more of my apps were breaking after applying updates]. With all OSX Finder's faults and all the annoyances of the OS, I still think it's miles ahead of any Linux distro I've tried to get on with. Two wo…

Maybe QuickLook outlived itself. It was a technology tailored to the HDD era of hardware, when complex apps required dozens of seconds to start. In a world were even LibreOffice cold-starts in under three seconds on middle of the road hardware QuickLook is just a familiar workflow instead of a necessity?

Initially I missed QuickLook a lot after switching away from macOS, but now I haven't thought about it in years.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time Mac user (1992); I think the Mac UI peaked at Mavericks (some would argue Snow Leopard due to the dumb Save workflow in Lion). As soon as Yosemite started trying too hard to be minimal it started a descent into prioritizing style over UX. I haven't touched Big Sur yet and probably won't until I'm forced to with a new Mac. Looking at screenshots of Elementary, it's so much more obvious how things work and wh…

Another long-time Mac user, who is also increasingly frustrated with how dumbed down & bloated OSX is becoming [I'm sticking on Mavericks for the foreseeable future and only 'upgraded' from El Capitán because more and more of my apps were breaking after applying updates]. With all OSX Finder's faults and all the annoyances of the OS, I still think it's miles ahead of any Linux distro I've tried to get on with. Two wo…

> Why, in 2021, does every single Linux desktop require me to open a file first to see what's inside it?

KDE's file manager has a previewpane that you can enable if you wish.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#149
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t really different from macOS. Ever tried to run a Mac GTK app, or one that uses XQuartz? It’s just that more people target macOS.

XQuartz and GTK apps on MacOS are the exception. A bigger problem with regards to inconsistent UI/UX stems from Electron apps and apps like Firefox which implement its own context menus, for example, and don't interact with the OS with things like Applescript, which Chromium browsers and Safari do. Still, there's a lot of applications that do respect the OS paradigms for design and user experience. Interfacing with a…

Right, so Elementary is trying to enforce a consistent language. Apps that follow the language will look consistent, apps that don't, won't.

The only difference with macOS is the number of apps that make at least a minimal effort to follow the OS paradigm.

(We might be saying the same thing!)

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#150

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

Although I think the criticism is also overblown, there's a difference: under windows, it's mostly about look and feel. Older apps look like garbage, or are inconsistent with the current look. Take an older app and compare with an app from the store, and they look like they came from a different OS.

Interestingly, Microsoft Apps are the largest offenders, historically. They like to ship them with new versions of their common controls library, so it may take a while until you see changes in the OS itself (the ribbon being a large offender).

However, things work similarly. All the keyboard shortcuts work (unless they messed up on purpose), screen readers work, most settings work across the board (even if it makes the app look even worse). Change the color scheme, everything changes. In most cases, you can use the same API functions to interact with the controls, and WM messages tend to work consistently.

Not so with linux GUI toolkits. There has been a lot of effort in trying to make them look the same, but it's pretty obvious when an app is written in GTK vs QT or TK. Even the way they respond to sizing events change. Widgets work totally differently, keyboard shortcuts and conventions change.

It's less of a problem than it used to be, but it is still there, and it is sometimes very jarring. I don't know how to fix it, but it has to be fixed at some point.

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