The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent' • Hacker News Board

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#91

Post by newfriend » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

claudiulodro wrote: post #58

newfriend wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but what's the alternative exactly? Force people who do actually work, produce, create, etc to pay for people who think working is beneath them? Should you be given free shit simply because you exist? If you don't want to work for someone else, then start a business. If you don't want to work at all, then figure out how you're going to live. No one is forcing you to do anything.

> Should you be given free shit simply because you exist? Yes? > Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. > No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. > Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organizati…

None of these things indicate that I should be forced to pay for someone who doesn't want to work.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#92

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

logosmonkey wrote: post #48

Pay me well, provide good benefits, allow a flexible work schedule where I can work when I want to and still get day to day life stuff done and hire enough people so I can consistently work only the 40 hours you are actually paying me for. My current job does that and I love it. When something critical comes up I'm happy to work over a weekend to hit a deadline because I know my manager will comp me back time when I…

> When something critical comes up

The problem: everything looks 'critical' to folks with a greedy and selfish streak who rise high in management and have their pay tied to the quarterly stock price. That's how we ended up with 24/7 support and "five nines" availability. I'm old enough to remember that banks opened late and closed early, didn't operate on weekends or holidays, and if you didn't get your paycheck cashed by 4pm Friday you were out of luck until Monday at 10am. Grocery stores, malls, and tons of other places opened in the morning and closed at night, and most places didn't open on Sunday at all. Those that did opened later "after church".

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#93

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #39

bartread wrote: post #20

> because the highest quit rate is among not engaged and actively disengaged workers. As opposed to what, exactly? What are you expecting to see? Highly engaged employees mass quitting? The situation described in this piece sounds fairly normal to me. People who aren't that fussed about their jobs, or actually dislike them, are always much more likely to quit. The real question is whether there has been an increase i…

I have some highly engaged coworkers who are in the process of burning out. I think they’re only still here because the entire company would crumble if they stopped. Coworkers have commented that if we lose these people we are fucked, and I just keep thinking: can’t you see that they are already gone? You better make plans, because as soon as they go I’m splitting too.

Yeah, once the burnout reaches a certain point, they will disengage, and then their right in the middle of the pack of the leavers.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#94

Post by iammisc » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #42

nopcode wrote: post #22

I resigned during the pandemic. The lockdown stripped my job to the essentials: No colleagues, no coffee corner, no nice fancy office, no treats (lunches, dinners, drinks), brainstorms, etc. I was left with something that was boring me to death. I felt perfectly happy in that job for 5 years before covid.

It’s interesting how different people are. All those things you list are reasons I would want to quit a job. I don’t ever want to work in an office ever again.

You must understand that this attitude is the minority. Most people like their workplace because they like the people there.

My dad worked in pharma sales for 30 years. Do you think he cared to sell the drugs? I mean... in that the drugs were helping people, he was happy. But his reason for going to work everyday was talking to his colleagues. To this day, he and his old colleagues still visit each other, still party together, and vacation together.

When I tell my parents that I do things like work on programming projects outside of work, they think I'm crazy. Being genuinely interested in the content of your work so much so that you'd do it outside of a job is unique to engineering professions, IME.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#95

Post by bawana » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

This is just fake news. Corporate America has gotten rid of employees in favor of gig workers. Gig workers by definition are not engaged/vested in their job. Dont try and 'blame' this on the employees (you cant find good help anymore) since they really have not had an improvement in their lot since the 1970s. In the good old days, the disenfranchised would have joined a 'revolution'. Unfortunately, for all our free speech, disinformation is paralyzing everyone in their own information bubbles.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#96

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #79

I recommend the following rules to organizations that are hoping to maintain or maximize employee engagement. I may have missed a few. 1. Do not lie to new hires during the hiring process. I know this is a hard one because you want to sell the company, but it is important to set expectations appropriately. Unmet expectations (created by the company) will ultimately be paid by the company in full. 2. Do not antagonize…

I'd argue that companies need to start with the hiring process itself. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210727-the-rise-of-ne...

Companies are focused on getting the perfect person for the job who can come up to speed and be productive nearly immediately because they put no money or effort into actually developing employees (see: loyalty), Because employers are stuck on the treadmill of needing a person now to fill a need just in time, they are so averse to "false positives", hiring someone who doesn't work out, they have put in a gantlet to try to prevent that.

Also, to your point 4, it's not just that, it's the whole culture of "looking busy" instead of being productive. See for example: https://gameworldobserver.com/2021/08/04/xsolla-fires-150-em...

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#97

Post by setr » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

ornornor wrote: post #89

setr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All that’s really being asked of us is to give up all our productive years in service to people with no ethics, to make them richer. People who are more than happy to use you up and toss your corpse on the pile when you die. Is that really too much? It's been that way for thousands of years -- what's new now?

People have been suffering and dying in terrible ways since the dawn of time. And yet we’re trying to improve on this to reduce suffering and death. What’s your point?

because events are transpiring now, supposedly based on this, yet the described boat is the same from 50 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 2 years ago.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#98

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #25

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #4

Pretty obviously can't have a real great resignation without significant wage increases, which would most likely increase inflation (or more accurately, be symptomatic of latent inflation that hadn't yet reached prices).

Which is exactly what’s happening. Our starting offers are up 15% over pre-pandemic and we’re still having trouble closing the candidates we want.

What does your interview process look like, if you don't mind my asking.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#99

Post by wayoutthere » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #71

wayoutthere wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just that there is a future where those who don’t want to work a menial job aren’t forced to do so in order to survive. Which may mean accepting a lower level of productivity. But a lot of people get bored without work, and extra money to buy nice things will always motivate people, so there will still be a large labor pool and automation can take care of the rest.

This technocratic vision of the future does not square away with human nature and reality. Much more likely is a Butlerian Jihad to destroy automation and return us to a more pastoral way of life, even with advanced technology. Only socially awkward engineers, business majors (most of whom are incredibly anti-social contrary to common perception), and finance types actually believe in this vision. Normal people are h…

Is it meaningful work if it can be easily automated by contemporary technology but we choose not to?

And I agree that we do need meaningful work on a human level; it’s why I don’t say “nobody should work”. But meaningful work might only mean two hours a day. If that’s all you want to do, you’re prolly not gonna be able to afford a new iPhone any time soon but you shouldn’t go hungry, homeless or untreated.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#100

Post by cratermoon » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #13

cratermoon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a hard time believing this is accurate How does that follow? It certainly seems that spending $9K/year or less compared to coughing up 3 to 10 times that to hire proves that attention to retention is nowhere near that given to hiring.

But if it were accurate, wouldn't companies spend more effort on retention and engagement over hiring? This is a data point that I have seen claimed for years and years and yet companies don't act on it. Companies are either making a near universal error that has been well publicized at this point or the number is wrong and hiring is nowhere near that expensive. Amazon is a very data driven company. But they have no…

That goes back to how different costs are accounted for in the corporate world, how they appear on the bottom line, and how they affect valuation and the stock price. I don't pretend to understand corporate account practices, but generally, look at what's considered an asset, what's considered a liability, and what sort of costs can be amortized and or taken as a tax credit.

I imagine that if there was a law that said companies could write off half or more what they spend on employee retention and development, you'd see Amazon and others put a lot more money that direction.