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Elementary OS 6 Odin

blog.elementary.io

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Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#91

Post by kemiller »

azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

This is pretty much why all the desktop Linux experiences fail. The major linux apps were all developed for different desktop experiences and so there's no consistency, even on things as basic as copy/paste shortcuts. It's very hard to get that without a powerful dictator shepherding the overall ecosystem and it's the achilles heel of FOSS for GUIs.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#92

Post by iamcreasy »

azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

Agreed. I've always wondered if it was somewhat easier to maintain a variant of GNOME with the same features they had in mind.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#94

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

beermonster wrote: post #87
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Now to ensure I can install software I need not just one package manager, but at least 2 or 3 (atp, flatpak, snap). Of course that doesn't cover all the bases either, I'm still occasionally going to have to compile something from source because the developer didn't even bother making a binary because they don't want to build it for 5+ different packaging formats, several of which will need constant mainte…

> Fragmentation of a platform is bad, and Linux Desktop is so fragmented This is the point I'm making though. There is fragmentation on the desktop (even if we just stick to window managers, display managers, desktop environments). But there's fragmentation EVERYWHERE. I can choose from thousands of distros, in numerous package formats, with different opinions on that collection of software and its default configurat…

I think there may be some misunderstanding. I'm using "Linux Desktop" to denote the collection of all software for Linux that provides the desktop experience. That includes all the distros, packaging formats, and whatnot.

If you compare Linux Desktop to other desktop operating systems it is catastrophically fragmented by comparison.

> Android is also a prime example of the same thing.

No, it really isn't, because I only have one package format that I have to package Android applications in and the only API I have to deal with is the Android API. Though of course that's a headache because of how new permissions and older APIs interact, but that's still a lot more straight-forward.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#95

Post by kemiller »

jcelerier wrote: post #82
azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

And this is exactly why some people prefer MacOS, which eOS is trying to emulate.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#96

Post by smoldesu »

kemiller wrote: post #95
jcelerier wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs That's a weird criticism. How many competing UI frameworks with completely different look'n'feel are there in a default win10 install ? How many control panels and file dialogs ?

And this is exactly why some people prefer MacOS, which eOS is trying to emulate.

MacOS still has anachronistic design elements. My least favorite was the Dashboard, which long outstayed it's welcome...

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#97

Post by handrous »

Ashanmaril wrote: post #69
yboris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can one live without the minimize button? What does the OS recommend instead?

When I'm on my Mac I don't really use a minimize button ever. I organize all my windows between virtual desktops. One for calendar/notes, one for browsers and maybe the downloads folder open, one for IDE and terminal, one for chat apps, etc.

I think wanting to minimize is related to working with non-maximized, mouse-managed windows. I was a heavy minimizer on Windows back when I used it for things other than gaming (so... some time before Win7) and on Linux back in the day, but on macOS with Spectacle, I never minimize. Everything is almost always maximized, half-screen (top or bottom, left or right), or quarter-screen. I rarely move a window with my mouse, I just toss them to different regions (or maximize them) with key combos. I don't get visual clutter without minimizing, because my screen's usually completely filled with whichever things I'm working on.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#98

Post by kzrdude »

appleiigs wrote: post #84
azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

>Their own forks of popular apps? They do their own apps. It's actually one of their most frequent criticism - they recreate the wheel in building their own apps instead of focusing on the OS. And they do it for consistency, which is also goes against your other point.

It sounds so unsustainable in the long run. It's good that we have parallel alternatives for some categories of apps, but we need better apps not more shallow copies of apps. The gnome project is doing the same thing, so the same kind of goes for them.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#99

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

BeefWellington wrote: post #88
input_sh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: https://theevilskeleton.gitlab.io/2021/02/11/response-to-fla... There's also Flatseal ( https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.github.tchx84.Flatseal ) as a user-friendly way of managing permissions for flatpak apps. This version of elementary OS comes with its own permission manager, but with my limited experience with both, it seems like it allows tweaking less permissions than Flatseal.

> See: https://theevilskeleton.gitlab.io/2021/02/11/response-to-fla ... Everything in that reference basically says "yep the criticism is valid" and in a few cases the author expands on that with "but it's ok because..." and then lists various reasons why it's fine that it's still a problem but that's it's being worked on. They also had to correct a good chunk of just outright incorrect information they were supplyin…

> Why not have flatpak prompt for permissions as they're used, e.g.: "This app wants to open your home directory" rather than at install-time. That would make it abundantly clearer to the end users this is aimed at.

I'm going out on a limb and guessing that it is because that's what is done in mobile, and it's usage in mobile has re-taught everyone the lesson that constant dialog prompts just train users to click through dialog prompts without reading them. That's bad, and annoying.

I do still think there are better solutions to that problem, but it would require more effort from users to get applications working if they weren't designed with sandboxing in mind, which is the vast majority of applications, which in turn means that Flatpak probably wouldn't have grown as quickly.

Re: Elementary OS 6 Odin

#100

Post by stonogo »

azinman2 wrote: post #75

I tried eOS 5. The screenshots made it look the most user friendly of Linux distros (read: Apple knock off), and at first it feels that way. But it quickly starts to show how shallow that knock off is… and it’s a huge undertaking so I don’t blame them. First is what happens once you run anything that isn’t made by them — all of the sudden totally different UIs. Linux has this problem in spades because there is no sta…

This is a series of complaints about the project as it stood in 2018, when eOS 5 was new. You don't suspect that maybe some of your criticism might have aged out? Maybe some of your recommendations are redundant by now?
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