Live data from Hacker News

Done with YC: Age Discrimination

news.ycombinator.com

121–130 of 140 posts

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#121
post #74
post #41

One thing that stood out to me is that you've applied 3 or 4 times as a solo founder, while acknowledging that YC prefers teams to solo founders. The reason they give for this preference is that "one-person startups are tough and you're more likely to succeed with a cofounder," which seems reasonable to me. Have you tried in earnest to find others to apply with you? If not, why not? This may be the single most import…

I don't need cofounders. Anyone who is married knows just how tough that can be. The primary reason for which cofounders are useful with a young team is because entrepreneurship is horribly difficult and 20-somethings are not necessarily equipped to deal with this reality. In this context, having more people on the boat makes it less likely that one person absolutely imploding will implode the startup. I don't have t…

Very much agreed with this. I've seen just as many startups blown up by founder drama as I have by a single overworked founder. And like you say, I think the value prop of multiple founders ships from postive to negative as the founder age increases.

That being said, YC has a very clear and vocal preference for multiple founders, which comes back to maybe YC isn't the right choice for you.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My recollection is that $125k came about because when there was more money (and there was at one time) it was enough to tempt a non-trivial number of founders to fight over rather than build a company. The problem, in so far as what I read on HN, was not three cofounders deciding to take the money and travel the world instead of building the company. The problem was that the founders who were interested in fighting o…

> because when there was more money (and there was at one time) it was enough to tempt a non-trivia My recollection is the opposite. I picked a random web archive day 12+ years ago and confirmed it was a laughably small sum: https://web.archive.org/web/20090302183945/http://ycombinato... > We usually invest $5000 + $5000n, where n is the number of participating founders (i.e. 2 founders get $15,000, 3 get $20,000), i…

Originally it was that low. Then it went up until it hit the point of creating problems. Now it is where it is which is lower than where it once was but much higher than it was before the peak.

The increases started I believe via an outside investor (maybe Conway? maybe Arrington? maybe not) agreeing to spread dollars uniformly across each batch's portfolio. There were also things like AWS credits. Basically, there were miscellaneous efforts to extend the runway.

As YC has matured, the efforts have become more organized.

It's worth noting that the lower investments originally were more commensurate with both the cost of living for a few months in the Bay Area and with the valuations of startups...Reddit sold to Conde Nast for about $10 million and sub-million dollar funding rounds used to be news on the front page of Hacker News.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#123
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody was connected when they started, not myself either. They got their partner contact publicly or from public events they hold

Did they participate in the Startup School or other programs?

For me and others who got in before that existed no. For those after, yes.

After this discussion, I think going to the inperson events gives you a bit of an unfair advantage to really explain what you have made.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#124
post #15

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't YC started explicitly to select drastically younger founders at a time when the prevailing narrative was that startup founders should be generally around 30 for optimum likelihood of success? Given that history, how should we interpret this critique? Has YC failed to evolve alongside the shift in its perception in the startup world?

Correct, and yet YC has also greatly grown-up from it's humble start of 20K and a flight to find a flop-house in Palo Alto. I agree with OP's point on the inherant age discrimination within technology, I say this because I was once a biased younger human who didn't have the life experience to understand the other side. I remember saying "software is a young man's game", I cringe at times of the hubris of the earlier…

> I agree with OP's point on the inherant age discrimination within technology, I say this because I was once a biased younger human who didn't have the life experience to understand the other side.

Thanks. Most people never stop to engage in a little introspection and think, you see a lot of that in comments.

Perhaps I was fortunate enough in life to have come up through a different path. At 19 I went to work as an engineer at a place where everyone was 10 to 15 years older than me. I was still in school, it was just a work title, but I was treated as a full engineer.

Unlike some of the tech companies I have worked for as an older person, the ratio of young-to-older where I worked at 19 was seriously skewed towards older experienced engineers. In fact, I was the only sub-30 year old in the team. My attitude was humble and simple: I want to learn from everyone who is willing to teach me. And teach they did. This was my start into becoming multidisciplinary. For example, one of the mechanical engineers ran the machine shop. He'd rope me in to help make parts on the manual Bridgeport and, eventually, design them and make them on the CNC machines. It was like that with just about everything that went on in the place. One day I could be designing analog circuits at me desk and the next on the roof helping fix a 20 ton air conditioning unit. I loved it.

One day the VP of Engineering called me into his office. He sketched out a full system on a piece of paper. Just basic I/O and some notes on important functionality. He said: This is your project now. I need you to design and build every single one of these boxes. I said: "But, I don't know enough to do this, it's fairly advanced stuff". He said: "I know you can do it. You can learn what you don't know. And the guys will help you with anything you need. Can you do it?" I said "yes". It took a year and a great deal of effort, but I got it done. That was incredibly valuable and I often look back at that moment as a seminal event in my life.

Anyhow, a long way to say that the obvious existence of age bias in technology is likely creating problems we don't yet understand. I can't predict what this means. All I know is that young engineers just out of university just don't know enough. It would be of great value to them to enter the workforce under the wing of older, more experienced engineers rather than having contempt for them.

I have personally experienced the ugliness of what this lack of humanity can produce. I was having a conversation with an engineer in the team I was supporting in the course of one of my consulting engagements. His design of a subassembly intended to go into a spacecraft was flawed. It didn't take me long to realize this because, well, I have a lot of experience. I brought this up during a cordial one-on-one conversation. The response was, almost verbatim: "I have a Masters degree from MIT. I know what I am doing". Six months and a quarter of a million dollars later, the entire assembly disintegrates on the vibration table, precisely as I predicted. What's sad is that, even after that, he remained defiant and refused to listen to me. At some point I just gave up. I saw too much of that from others. I did whatever I could to help but was not about to take on a cultural problem I had no way to address.

Mentorship is important, yet it requires the student to be receptive and humble.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#125

Why is this post getting so many upvotes? "Age discrimination" - based on what?! If I am a vegan and get constantly rejected by YC, should I create a post: "Done with YC: They hate vegans"? I expect much better from HN. What the hell.

The conversation in the thread is quite interesting and thoughtful I think. And it's relevant to everyone since we are all getting older.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the median age at which founders start "billion dollar businesses" is 34 [0] (the same article references a HBR study that says that mentions an age of 45 for "successful" entrepreneurs). That would also generally correlate to an age where one's peers have ongoing obligations (financial, family). [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/super-founders-median-age-of...

that's entirely circular reasoning because if there was a bias against older founders, then by definition successful founders skew younger.

Only circular if the stats are only from within the YC ecosystem, but I believe the stats mentioned are across the entire startup ecosystem. If true, it would actually support the argument that YC does discriminate for reasons that are not supported by the evidence outside of their ecosystem. If 45 year olds represent the most successful entrepreneurs, why are they targeting inexperienced 22 year olds?

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#127
post #124
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, and yet YC has also greatly grown-up from it's humble start of 20K and a flight to find a flop-house in Palo Alto. I agree with OP's point on the inherant age discrimination within technology, I say this because I was once a biased younger human who didn't have the life experience to understand the other side. I remember saying "software is a young man's game", I cringe at times of the hubris of the earlier…

> I agree with OP's point on the inherant age discrimination within technology, I say this because I was once a biased younger human who didn't have the life experience to understand the other side. Thanks. Most people never stop to engage in a little introspection and think, you see a lot of that in comments. Perhaps I was fortunate enough in life to have come up through a different path. At 19 I went to work as an…

“Mentorship is important, yet it requires the student to be receptive and humble.”

This is a key point (not only in engineering). In fact, I think it defines whether someone will excel at a faster rate than others with similar years of experience. Most of the time it is better to observe and listen in these circumstances and then decide if the advice makes sense with independent thought. Arguing or resisting while a mentor is discussing with you creates friction that can reduce the benefits of the mentoring relationship.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#128
post #111
post #52

Technology startups have a mandatory narrative of "someone young, cool, smart and with a great idea...". Anyone past 38 (if I remember correctly PG wrote 38 is the cut off date for founders) is too old for said narrative. (BTW: I´m 43) Maybe you should game the system and match with a young and cool co-founder that does the PR part.

Paul Graham didn’t even start Y combinator until he was 41!

This is hilarious.

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#129
post #56

"Cultural fit" is 99 times out of 100 blanket coverage for biases against, race, age, and ethnicity.

YC doesn't select for "cultural fit".

Or do they simply select for proxy variables like age and marital status that inevitably create a cultural fit?

Re: Done with YC: Age Discrimination

#130

I've never applied for YC funding, or any kind of seed funding, I don't know much about the world of startups but >YC evaluators are explicitly biased. There is such a thing as unconscious bias. We know and understand this in the racial domain. Yes they are, everyone is, it's the way of it. Yes they know who they want to give their money to. In the end like anyone else, whether it's a job interview or applying for gr…

Based on your description, YC will remain stuck with the same demographics forever and noone that meets those metrics should bother applying. Case closed.
Post reply on HN