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American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

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Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#261

Post by JohnWhigham »

ymolodtsov wrote: post #122
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oregon governor Kate Brown has signed a law that allows students to graduate without proving they can read, write or do math. The law had overwhelming Democrat support & is justified on the basis that it will benefit non-white students. https://thepostmillennial.com/oregon-governor-signs-new-law-...

Not sure how exactly the lack of these skills could benefit anyone. I understand that the lack of a school diploma is a huge drag in life and that can primarily affect people from disadvantaged backgrounds, but shouldn't they focus on improving the way they teach kids instead?

That would require skilled politicians that knew what they were doing.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#263

Post by confidantlake »

spoonjim wrote: post #141
toomanybeersies wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be wary of forming an opinion on foreign education systems from international students, as they're generally of more privileged extraction compared to the unwashed masses who can't afford to study overseas.

Not just privileged extraction, but likely high IQ. The Russian brain teasers are to get smart students excelling. The American system is set up to get the weak student stumbling to the finish line. The American school system isn’t designed to produce high achievers which is why the high achievers are produced by the parents and not by the schools.

Absolutely this. My father was an immigrant from an eastern block country. Just a regular family, his father was a salesman, his mother a secretary. Father was valedictorian of his high school, speaks 6 languages, ect. Scraped together enough money to study at a British grad school, finished in 1 year as valedictorian. Then he immigrated to America. So someone looking at his math achievements might think wow, they really teach those soviet immigrants math well! But it was more like the best of the best immigrate while someone more average like me would be stuck in the old country.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#264

Post by phkahler »

sega_sai wrote: post #210

It's a weird article. I think this idea of 'Russian math' is very nebulous, and is probably used as marketing tool nowadays by some schools abroad. I have graduated from one of the top physics/maths high schools in Russia, and yes we had great math education there, but that was an outlier. Outside a handful of schools the math education is pretty dismal. And even in the good math schools there are different ways of t…

>> It's a weird article. I think this idea of 'Russian math' is very nebulous

It felt a bit like a promotional piece. They really want to drill the phrase "Russian Math" into your head, presumably to promote the schools teaching it. That doesn't invalidate the notion that they teach math better than US public schools, I'm just offering a plausible explanation for the feel of the article.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#265

Post by andi999 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #112
andi999 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the second question. Probably the kid is supposed to see the 'trick' :he drank a full cup of coffee since he didn't refill coffee and drank all. He added 1/2, 1/3 and 1/6 of a cup of milk and drank it all, so (3+2+1)/6=1. He drank the same amount of coffee and milk. I think it is ok as a brain teaser, but there will probably be one kid in the class to see it and all the other kids feel dumb or whatever.…

> I think it is ok as a brain teaser, but there will probably be one kid in the class to see it and all the other kids feel dumb or whatever. But I don't think it teaches you anything These word problems are intended quite precisely as introduction to algebra. They show you the kinds of questions that algebra can solve in a "structural" way, which makes it way easier to grok algebra later on since motivation for the…

Why do you think this is the starting point of a structured introduction?

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#267

Post by BeFlatXIII »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #70
frant-hartm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> school's curriculum is based on Russian teaching traditions that emphasize reasoning and deeper understanding early on, not just memorization and practice drills. "The child should be brought to abstract level as soon as possible," she says, "meaning early introduction of algebra and geometry, not only arithmetic," and helping children figure out principles for themselves rather than spoon-feeding them.

I wish American teachers could teach the reasoning behind math. I don't think most math teachers know themselfs though---even at some colleges. I don't think I have even seen a math book that goes into depth on why a equation, or problem, is solved a certain way. I would like to see most memorization in math, and most subjects nixed for good. I have found, including myself, my early difficulties in math were due to j…

I went from terrible at timed tests of regurgitating basic arithmetic facts to one of the better math students in my school once the curriculum moved on to requiring some understanding of what was going on.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#269

Post by omginternets »

tamcap wrote: post #253
omginternets wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife went through the French "classe préparatoire" system and describes a similar degree of raw effort that was put into her studies (and in particular, mathematics). She talks about spending 10-12 hours a day either in class or studying at home, and I have to admit the amount of knowledge in that woman's head is absolutely astounding. Her education is elite in the same way that a sports team or military unit can…

As an immigrant in the US from Central Europe, I am blown away by how much time American children spend on extracurriculars vs academics (at least based on what I see around me). My extracurriculars in high school were maaaybe 5 hours a week. Some kids in the US spend 5 hours a day, every day. And don't get me started on varsity sports - that starts to resemble a job!

In hindsight, after spending nearly a decade in France (initially for graduate school), it seems very strange to me as well.

I've come away from this with the impression that American schools are the best-funded in the world, and survive by importing the best-educated from elsewhere. This is obviously a bit of a caricature, but I think it's mostly correct.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#270

Post by thechao »

ptero wrote: post #177
maga wrote: post #97

I went through the Soviet/Russian school system with all the advanced topics being covered in high school as others described here. My moment of zen was on my third year in one of the top tech universities in Moscow. There were quite a few students coming from Novosibirsk University who were comfortably ahead of the curve when it came to math. When they showed their transcript ("zachetka"), they had ~3000 hours of Ca…

My personal experience is that it wasn't just hours. Those who liked math spent a lot of time on it after classes. Those who didn't, avoided extras and still did OK (they would not go to top universities, but the base would be OK, with some practice, if they decide to go to a mid-level school). The biggest difference for me in school was a consistent, well thought out program (one for the whole country) and books. A…

You’re describing an idea adjacent to “mastery” schooling; it’s the natural method people tend to use when self-taught; it’s also how some online schools, like Khan Academy, use to teach. Both of my kids earn “allowance” (extra screen time; robux; etc.) by doing Khan Academy courses. Watching how unevenly they pick up topics — there’s no rhyme-or-reason to the speed they pick up even “close” skills — makes me think there’s malice aforethought in the steady pace learning I had as a child.
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