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New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

npr.org

61–70 of 108 posts

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#61

"Nobody would be looking at a flower stalk as the primary mode of carnivory" This is probably exactly what the plant is betting on. It's a nice perceptive check on our own individual intelligence as humans.

> betting > intelligence thats not how natural selection works some mutant blew its load into the wind and the mutant spawns survived, thats the whole story until we find a communication or same generation reaction mechanism that leads to different future adaptations

> not how natural selection works

> mutant spawn survived

>leads to different future adaptations

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#62
post #8

Faszinating! :) Having looked into carnivorous plants for a while, I am so glad they never grew significantly bigger...

> Having looked into carnivorous plants for a while, I am so glad they never grew significantly bigger...

Considering that we believe prehistoric times were incredibly lush with vegetation you may be right. The plants of your nightmares are likely to thrive in the future though when we have depleted the nutrients from our soil. As someone else mentioned, nature finds a way. It’s easy to forget that being at the top of the food chain puts us at the mercy of everything beneath… and when it comes time for Mother Nature to choose, she will likely begin culling from the top.

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#63

Interesting that they started with data. Some of the most interesting discoveries I've made have started with me saying "that's weird" while looking at data. From the article: "Graham's team was doing an unrelated project on plant genetics and noticed that the western false asphodel had a genetic deletion that's sometimes seen in carnivorous plants. The researchers started to think about the fact that this flower gre…

[deleted]

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#64
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long felt that the American school system's version of the scientific method (formulate hypothesis, run experiment, collect data, draw conclusions) is totally wrong and turns people off of science. The real procedure that we should teach kids is: collect data, ask questions about it, hypothesize some answers, and only then do a experiment to test your theory. The question formulation, based on observational evid…

Isn't that exactly how we teach the scientific method? I've been out of school for a good while, but I'm pretty sure I learned "Observe, Hypothesis, Experiment, Conclusion, Tri-Fold Poster Session."

I'm sure it's taught differently in different places, but what I want to see is: the science fair projects that everyone does should consist mostly of data-gathering _before_ the hypothesis step. Instead of mostly being about verifying a hypothesis, it should mostly be about _constructing_ an interesting hypothesis (and then verifying it afterwards).

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#65
post #33

Interesting that they started with data. Some of the most interesting discoveries I've made have started with me saying "that's weird" while looking at data. From the article: "Graham's team was doing an unrelated project on plant genetics and noticed that the western false asphodel had a genetic deletion that's sometimes seen in carnivorous plants. The researchers started to think about the fact that this flower gre…

I've long felt that the American school system's version of the scientific method (formulate hypothesis, run experiment, collect data, draw conclusions) is totally wrong and turns people off of science. The real procedure that we should teach kids is: collect data, ask questions about it, hypothesize some answers, and only then do a experiment to test your theory. The question formulation, based on observational evid…

You are 100% correct.

The boogeyman of confirmation bias paralyzes researchers.

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the Andromeda Strain should also teach to not so quickly use fire.

Wow, yes. It's been too long since I've read that book. It was very formative for me when I read it in school long ago, and at least twice more since, but it has to have been nearly 20 years. Have you happened to read the recent sequel, and if so how was it? I was kind of put off of Crichton by his later works after the original Jurassic Park (as usual, better than the movie) I know the sequel was not completely Crig…

Most of his other books were very worth reading though.

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#67
post #33

Interesting that they started with data. Some of the most interesting discoveries I've made have started with me saying "that's weird" while looking at data. From the article: "Graham's team was doing an unrelated project on plant genetics and noticed that the western false asphodel had a genetic deletion that's sometimes seen in carnivorous plants. The researchers started to think about the fact that this flower gre…

I've long felt that the American school system's version of the scientific method (formulate hypothesis, run experiment, collect data, draw conclusions) is totally wrong and turns people off of science. The real procedure that we should teach kids is: collect data, ask questions about it, hypothesize some answers, and only then do a experiment to test your theory. The question formulation, based on observational evid…

I think this depends on the field. In physics and engineering, there is a body of underlying theory from which one can derive a hypothesis, based on some causal mechanism, before seeing any data. You can then go out and collect some data to confirm - in many cases this is basically just a sanity check, occasionally the data is in conflict with the underlying theory and you learn something big.

Outside of the hard sciences, your procedure could make more sense. We do this in business consulting (not always a science but it can be if you do it well) by looking through financial, operational and HR data and asking questions or trying to draw out interesting relationships that can lead to hypothesis for deeper examination. I would expect the same is true in lots of health science as well or any empirical field where we have data on outcomes and the characteristics that may influence then. Even in these fields though, it doesn't preclude starting with a causal mechanism based on underlying theory and then devising data collection and experiments to go out and conform or refute your hypothesis.

Personally, I've seen lots of cases where people are quick to rely on statistics and empirical studies, without looking for the mechanism that must exist behind the relationship they're claiming. Such findings are much weaker than results that may have less data or a bigger p-value but are grounded in actual theory and not just reporting a model-free relationship.

So to summarize, there is certainly a place for the order you suggest, but if done right, a stronger formulation can be made based on what you call the American school system method.

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both lead to common biases - the former in fraudulent experimentation, the latter (your suggestion) in fraudulent data snooping and anecdotal case-finding. Both have their merits done correctly, however, but the latter is only possible because of the former - the data has to come from somewhere, and experimentation was how it was historically done... since there wasn't a global database upon instantiation of the plan…

I argue that there is no such thing as formulating a hypothesis with no prior knowledge. We all have prior observations - hypotheses don't appear out of nowhere. In this respect I think GP's comment is admirable - it means teaching kids to use their experiences to formulate hypotheses, rather than forcing them to guess what you want them to formulate. (As an aside, I set out to comment here because I tire of the poin…

Formulating hypothesis first, even with little knowledge, is fine as long as the point is to invalidate them (basically you assume they are wrong and you’re fine spending time to prove it).

It can help focus the data gathering phase, and you get two results: you can ignore your first hypothesis from now on, and you have further data to look at to formulate a decent hypothesis to expand on.

Re: New carnivorous plant discovered in Pacific Northwest

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the Andromeda Strain should also teach to not so quickly use fire.

Wow, yes. It's been too long since I've read that book. It was very formative for me when I read it in school long ago, and at least twice more since, but it has to have been nearly 20 years. Have you happened to read the recent sequel, and if so how was it? I was kind of put off of Crichton by his later works after the original Jurassic Park (as usual, better than the movie) I know the sequel was not completely Crig…

I haven't read any of the above, but while we're on the topic of dangerous fictional flora, I can recommend:

The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham

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