Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned • Hacker News Board

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#201

Post by blinkingled » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:19 PM UTC

I so wish he had a camera at least on the entrance of the apartment. Besides I hope that since the burglar used Internet for communication the IP address is recorded with AirBNB or Google and that will help track him/her down.

Horrible story to be sure. Trust no one goes too far but trust and verify should be the norm. I for one would have thought twice before giving out house keys to a person who misspelled his/her own last name. I guess as he seems to indicate AirBNB model/markting fooled him into 100% trust.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#202

Post by javaecc123 » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:20 PM UTC

darklajid wrote: post #62

prof wrote: post #8

I cannot believe he did not meet them in person first. And left valuable things behind. edit: or she..

How is that relevant? Apart from the fact that valuables were locked in, I don't get the point: - You cannot take everything with you, you have to leave stuff at your _home_ (all the documents mentioned for example). - I won't try to claim that I can speak for the author, but I'd guess that the valuables lost are less a problem. The violation/emotional troubles seem to be worse. - Giving the nature of the destruction…

How is that not relevant? I used craigslist to sell a car recently and with strangers showing up asking for solo test drives, the least I could do was ask for a valid license so I could make a copy and a cell phone number, which I verified on the spot. That or no solo test drive. True in extreme cases this would not have stopped my car getting stolen, but I cannot imagine leaving a house full of personal documents and valuables to a stranger whose sex and last name I did not even know. You can tell a lot from meeting someone in person, at least enough to raise red flags or some doubt and maybe have a neighbor check in from time to time.I think airbnb and the internet in general lull some otherwise smart, educated people into a false sense of security they wouldn't have offline but people need to use just as much commonsense online as they would in the real world.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#203

Post by jerf » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #167

speckledjim wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the whole premise is that you're traveling. Going to unknown territories. If I'm going traveling, I'm sure as hell in "untrusting" mode since I don't have a clue what the locals are like. There's strangers as in "local resident I see each day but don't know", and there's strangers as in "I've just traveled to a completely different country and have no clue who this person is" Wanting to trust everyone and b…

> a nice hippy dream. Bullshit. Live in fear of strangers your whole life or trust the basic humanity of strangers. Either way you're still going to die of heart disease like the rest of us. Why don't you live in constant fear of that? Stranger danger is a result of a fear-mongering media. Are you seriously worried about serial killers? Do you know how few of them there are and how freaking many people there are in t…

"Live in fear of strangers..."

Strawman. I don't live in fear of strangers. They don't haunt my dreams or make me break out in cold sweat or make me stop going places. But I keep my eye out, because I am not stupidly naive about it.

It's not as irrational as you think, either. The majority of people are decent, or society wouldn't exist at all. However, the non-decent ones tend to seek out travelers and other people who can be victimized. This is why the best advice to give to your kids is that they can probably trust anyone they walk up to if they have a serious problem, but anyone who approaches them for anything out-of-the-ordinary should probably be treated with great skepticism. Statistically speaking there are many situations, such as traveling, where you are disproportionately likely to encounter the non-decent types. Ignore this fact at your own peril.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#204

Post by zeteo » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:24 PM UTC

Welcome to the real world, such things are bound to happen. The main question is: to what degree does AirBnB know the identity of the perpetrator? Let alone helping the police catch them; but is AirBnB even able to prevent this person from making a new account and repeating the deed?

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#205

Post by m__ » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:27 PM UTC

dlss wrote: post #192

true_religion wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is one those places where laws make sense to me; the average person needs to be protected from unknowingly gambling with their family's future. What kind of laws do you suggest?

At the very least requiring theft/fire/vandalism insurance for people renting out their home. Also interesting: limiting vacation rentals to accredited investors. (edit: and requiring places like AirBnB to verify those requirements before you can list with them)

Why don't you start a business that offers competitive insurance packages to people who want to use airBnB (and similar products) instead of demanding a law that obviously would have a lot of unwanted side effects on people who _do_ know about the risks they are taking by entering this business?

Protective laws have very high hidden costs. These costs are hard to quantify and routinely are neglected when discussing pros and cons of said laws.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#206

Post by jimbokun » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:33 PM UTC

DanielRibeiro wrote: post #185

edw519 wrote: post #147

I get angry when I realize I will never again be who I've always been before, someone who lived strong and free by the creed that people are essentially good, that if you think optimistically, trust others. Please don't let them steal this too. I'm really sorry for your bad experience, but remember: - You can still live strong and free. - People are still essentially good. - You can still think optimistically. - You…

You might also consider taking a look into this: "Don't punish everyone for one person's mistake"[1] [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPOezLL398U&feature=share

I haven't watched the linked video, but the word "mistake" in no way applies to this situation. This was an entire week devoted to thinking up ways of being cruel to another human being.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#207

Post by micheljansen » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:34 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #126

I remember a while back, someone on HN commented that they preferred the AirBnB model to CouchSurfing; because they felt that they were under no obligation to spend time with their host, or try to repay their hospitality with a meal or gift. CouchSurfing relies upon (and in turn reinforces) a culture of good-will. Because AirBnB converts the CouchSurfing model into a simple cash transaction - I think a lot of the pos…

Exactly, it seems much harder to blatantly vandalize the home of a like-minded person who personally welcomes you into their home, offers to show you around etc. than the fancy loft of some faceless traveling businessman. Also paying for something tends to give certain people a sense of entitlement.

Of course none of this makes what happened to the poor person in this case OK or even remotely acceptable. Nonetheless, I think understanding why things happen is a good step towards coming up with a solution.

Maybe if AirBnB can get some of the personality of the Couchsurfing community, it can get some of these positive norms that go with it as well. The trick would be how to do that without losing the low social barrier to entry they have now.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#208

Post by kenjackson » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:34 PM UTC

hluska wrote: post #59

There is a big chicken or egg problem right at the core Of this sad case. On one hand, why would anyone trust someone they have only had limited conversations with to stay in their home...alone? On the other hand, if Airbnb allows renters to do background checks before the agreement is finalized, how do they avoid private sales? I can't resolve this, so I wouldn't dream of renting my place out unless I was going to b…

Why doesn't AirBnB simply do the checks you would do? In fact AirBnB can give a checklist of services they can run from nationwide background to credit checks. You check off what you want done, and AirBnB bills you for them.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#209

Post by afterburner » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

rkalla wrote: post #196

Shenglong wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're very optimistic. While I don't agree that people are essentially good, I envy your ability to see the world that way.

I was sitting here mulling over why you wouldn't think that people are essentially good and it dawns on me that a lot of people are scared and likely have behaviors that suggest they aren't good (e.g. drive by someone with a flat tire in the rain because they are scared it's a robbery setup for passer-bys) I think if you just look at your day to day interactions, most people are decent. I doubt many people are trying…

Maybe it's the difference between "people act good most of the time" and people truly being good. I don't think the vast majority of people are up to something criminal right this moment, but I might be less confident that 99% of people are motivated by good intentions. "Good intentions" and "not a criminal" are very different standards, but that's the point.

The fear thing made me think something else entirely: does it count as being good if a person acts good out of fear? (Of being caught/punished.) Everyone's answer to that question may also colour their views on peoples' goodness.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#210

Post by extension » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:37 PM UTC

extension wrote: post #114

I wonder if the hotel chains would hire goons to do this.

Ouch. Not sure what everyone has against this simple speculation. The hotels have already used some sleazy legal tactics against Airbnb and corporations have been known to do worse when an entire industry is under threat.

I just find it odd that a mere thief would go to so much extra trouble to destroy things and cause grief.