Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned • Hacker News Board

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#191

Post by mikecaron » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:05 PM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #173

ry0ohki wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone comes from Craigslist, you can at least Google for their name, try to find a Facebook page, etc... BEFORE they enter your house. At best, the way it is for the author, she could have done some checking, but at that point the freak is already in her house.

No, after the booking is completed, still well before keys are handed over, personal contact information is made available. Sure, it's inconvenient if you have to turn someone down after researching them but after they paid, but that's hardly the issue here.

But the author of the article makes a point to say this was too late a point in time, as they were already out of town.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#192

Post by dlss » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:08 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #184

dlss wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this happens soon. The risk/reward trade-offs don't seem to be understood by most AirBnB landlords (99.99% chance of earning $100, 0.01% chance of losing $50k+). Even though this is strongly positive expected value, for a family that can't afford to lose $50k this is a game of russian roulette. My heart goes out to the author of this; I hope the person who did this to her is put in jail, and the system (AirBnB…

> This is one those places where laws make sense to me; the average person needs to be protected from unknowingly gambling with their family's future. What kind of laws do you suggest?

At the very least requiring theft/fire/vandalism insurance for people renting out their home.

Also interesting: limiting vacation rentals to accredited investors.

(edit: and requiring places like AirBnB to verify those requirements before you can list with them)

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#193

Post by moe » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:08 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #100

rdl wrote: post #11

I am non-representatively paranoid, and have always been afraid of this kind of thing when having guests not personally known to me, visitors to "open house" office events, etc. I think there is little actual risk with almost anyone as a guest (most people ARE good, or at least non-malicious, or at least lazy), but this is why the AirBnB reputation system is so key to their value (and why they'll have a strong networ…

I suspect home owner's insurance would not cover this since they would probably see it as an unlicensed rental. I've thought for a while that Airbnb will need to develop an insurance system. I'm sure that lesser incidents of property destruction / theft are far more commonplace (carpet stains, cigarette burns, appliances damaged, "borrowing" something that doesn't get returned) and I've thought dealing with such is g…

$50k?

I'd be more worried about a guest setting the house on fire, by accident or not. Fire-damage can easily clock in north of $500k. Good luck explaining the AirBnB concept to your insurance company after a stranger turns out to be "not available anymore" (stolen CC, etc.).

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#194

Post by mikecaron » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:09 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #141

brianchesky wrote: post #87

Hey everyone - we were shocked when we heard about this unsettling event. We have been working closely with the authorities, and we want to reassure our community that, with the help of our security infrastructure, we were able to assist the police in their investigation, and we understand from authorities that a suspect is now in custody. We've created a marketplace built on trust, transparency and authenticity with…

Emotionally devastating story, but it seems like there is an easy solution to this. Have AirBnb contract include an insurance policy (superseding the homeowners insurance) for the time of rental. Also, have Airbnb keep credit card info on hand and hold guest responsible for any damage. Pretty standard business practices.

What about regular homeowner's insurance? Surely there can be policies that can cover this kind of thing which a host can obtain on their own. AirBnB doesn't have to muddy their business model with doing insurance, let the insurance people do this.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#195

Post by Hisoka » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:12 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #172

edw519 wrote: post #147

I get angry when I realize I will never again be who I've always been before, someone who lived strong and free by the creed that people are essentially good, that if you think optimistically, trust others. Please don't let them steal this too. I'm really sorry for your bad experience, but remember: - You can still live strong and free. - People are still essentially good. - You can still think optimistically. - You…

> - People are still essentially good. Out of every 100 people, 98 are absolutely wonderful human beings, 1 is an asshole, and 1 is a lunatic. My experience out of doing retail for a few years.

I think the wonderful human beings are also lunatics. Just some a less extent than others.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#196

Post by rkalla » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:15 PM UTC

Shenglong wrote: post #177

edw519 wrote: post #147

I get angry when I realize I will never again be who I've always been before, someone who lived strong and free by the creed that people are essentially good, that if you think optimistically, trust others. Please don't let them steal this too. I'm really sorry for your bad experience, but remember: - You can still live strong and free. - People are still essentially good. - You can still think optimistically. - You…

You're very optimistic. While I don't agree that people are essentially good, I envy your ability to see the world that way.

I was sitting here mulling over why you wouldn't think that people are essentially good and it dawns on me that a lot of people are scared and likely have behaviors that suggest they aren't good (e.g. drive by someone with a flat tire in the rain because they are scared it's a robbery setup for passer-bys)

I think if you just look at your day to day interactions, most people are decent. I doubt many people are trying to rob you, hit you or actively steal from you. Sure there are outliers, but the majority don't do this.

Lastly, as a reformed paranoid "everyone is out to get me", I would make the observation that the energy you put out there has maybe 70% to do with the types of reactions you get back.

A friendly, open-faced "Hello" gets a hell of a different response from a shrouded, closed off, nervous "Hello".

Try and be more free for 3 days and see if the experience you have with others is better.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#197

Post by yalogin » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:16 PM UTC

The most important thing to note is this has happened even before it hit critical mass, hell its in its infancy still. This is the reason why Airbnb never made sense to me as a business. The author is lucky there was no bodily harm done to him. It's too much of a risk to rent out your personal property to total strangers. Now they forever know where you live and more so know the complete layout of your house and what you have in it and your schedule. At the end of the day it cannot be more than bedandbreakfast.com used as a listing sits for businesses. That is why the 1billion valuation does not make sense either.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#198

Post by hessenwolf » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:18 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #147

I get angry when I realize I will never again be who I've always been before, someone who lived strong and free by the creed that people are essentially good, that if you think optimistically, trust others. Please don't let them steal this too. I'm really sorry for your bad experience, but remember: - You can still live strong and free. - People are still essentially good. - You can still think optimistically. - You…

People are generally good, but there is no bar so low that 99% of humans can not be convinced to slither under given the right circumstances. The world is full of horror.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#199

Post by _delirium » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:18 PM UTC

mikecaron wrote: post #194

hammock wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emotionally devastating story, but it seems like there is an easy solution to this. Have AirBnb contract include an insurance policy (superseding the homeowners insurance) for the time of rental. Also, have Airbnb keep credit card info on hand and hold guest responsible for any damage. Pretty standard business practices.

What about regular homeowner's insurance? Surely there can be policies that can cover this kind of thing which a host can obtain on their own. AirBnB doesn't have to muddy their business model with doing insurance, let the insurance people do this.

I think this case of unofficially renting out your house/apt is difficult to buy insurance for. Most homeowner's insurance policies explicitly exclude damages caused when renting your house. You need a separate landlord insurance to cover rental, but you typically can't buy landlord insurance unless your property is properly registered/licensed/inspected by your municipality as a rental property.

Re: Violated: A traveler’s lost faith, a difficult lesson learned

#200

Post by jeffool » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 2:18 PM UTC

vladd wrote: post #89

brianchesky wrote: post #87

Hey everyone - we were shocked when we heard about this unsettling event. We have been working closely with the authorities, and we want to reassure our community that, with the help of our security infrastructure, we were able to assist the police in their investigation, and we understand from authorities that a suspect is now in custody. We've created a marketplace built on trust, transparency and authenticity with…

Hey brian, - what's your side of the story on being unreachable 14 hours after the event? - did you offer AirBnB credit or compensation to the victim to stay elsewhere during this?

Purely pulling this out of my ass, but I'm hoping whoever took his initial call(s) just severely misunderstood the situation. Maybe people have had trashy guests or items broken and became irate over them, and that's what this person thought was happening. I hope.

I don't know the company's "side of the story", and would be surprised if it was ever really discussed in any way aside from steps taken to remedy this situation... But as this suggests, they apparently need, above their "urgent" number, a "Bat-Phone" for severe cases.