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Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

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Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#61

Post by owenmarshall »

colinplamondon wrote: post #24
heyimfromreddit wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're scr…

That's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy. CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

>Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy.

Bingo.

Entering the US with $5000 in Bitcoin would be equivalent to crossing the border with $5000 in Somaliland Shillings. They are both currencies that are bought and sold every day, but you can't take either to your neighborhood bank and convert them to USD. They have a very limited -- hell, even zero -- utility outside of circles that deal directly with them.

As such, CBP was rightly suspicious.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#62

Post by jrockway »

eli wrote: post #60
jrockway wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are carrying more than $10,000 worth of securities or cash, you have to declare that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning more than $10,000 worth of securities and liquidating them while you're visiting the US. Here's the official government documentation on the matter: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/tr... "If you receive in the US, currency ... exceeding $10,0000 at one…

But everyone entering the United States has to fill out a customs declaration that lists the value of goods being brought into the country.

If you have $9,999 in your wallet and a bank account with $1,000,000,000,000, though, you don't have to mention cash on your customs declaration form.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#63

Post by jrockway »

nivertech wrote: post #43

I was in Seattle a month ago for AMD Fusion conference. Here my dialog with the Immigration Officer: I.O. - "What's the purpose of you visit?" me - "I come to the AMD conference" I.O. - "For how long do you visiting US"? me - "8 days" I.O. - "How many days is the conference?" me - "3 days" I.O. - "So why do you come for 8 days??" ;) Re: "Dr. Nefario" - I can't believe he has no credit card.

Here's a word everyone speaking with an immigration officer needs to know: sightseeing.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#64

Post by FeministHacker »

umright wrote: post #19

Advice for crossing the US Border. 1) You are there on a holiday. Telling them you are self employed and going to work in an office you are renting there is only asking for trouble. It confuses the hell out of them. You think where you do the work from doesn't matter, they think you need a visa. You lose. 2) If you are going for a conference, print the badge off before your flight and have it with you. 3) Email or up…

On 3, Bruce Schneier has the following advice, which seems a little more sensible than wiping your devices in all cases:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/laptop_securit...

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#65

Post by semanticist »

jrockway wrote: post #62
eli wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But everyone entering the United States has to fill out a customs declaration that lists the value of goods being brought into the country.

If you have $9,999 in your wallet and a bank account with $1,000,000,000,000, though, you don't have to mention cash on your customs declaration form.

What if you have US$10,000 in your bitcoin wallet on your laptop? Is that the same as US$10,000 worth of collectable pins in your suitcase, or the same as US$10,000 worth of code/IP on your laptop (which I can't imagine anyone declaring in customs)?

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#66

Post by barrkel »

bdonlan wrote: post #28
chc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.

You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.

The visa waiver can be for tourism or for business. It has two checkboxes. When I visit the US, it's for work meetings, so I check business.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#67

Post by dublinclontarf »

khafra wrote: post #58
dublinclontarf wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, the phone and iPad had been wiped before coming and had just enough information on them to complete the trip, i.e. a map to the startpad.org office, and the needed phone numbers, nothing else. The U.S. has internet access, so upload everything to the cloud(encrypted) and then sync when you get there, which is what the plan was. Also having an encrypted device is useless if they can hold you until yo…

> ...had their laptop taken off them for about 10 minutes by the border agents, in that time they installed a rookit on it to track keystrokes. Really? How certain is he that the keylogger was a recent addition? I have a hard time believing that an ordinary border agent is that technically competent, even if he just had to put in a usb device and select a few menu options.

Quite certain.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#68

Post by dublinclontarf »

semanticist wrote: post #65
jrockway wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have $9,999 in your wallet and a bank account with $1,000,000,000,000, though, you don't have to mention cash on your customs declaration form.

What if you have US$10,000 in your bitcoin wallet on your laptop? Is that the same as US$10,000 worth of collectable pins in your suitcase, or the same as US$10,000 worth of code/IP on your laptop (which I can't imagine anyone declaring in customs)?

What if the bitcoin wallet isnt on your laptop but in the cloud?

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#69

Post by jules »

cfgvjkljhgfb wrote: post #59
Astrohacker wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good advice, but of course it's pretty absurd that anyone has to take these steps to avoid the overly invasive US government.

What is absurd is that whether you can enter or not isn't down to any rule - it's down to the particular low paid moron on the particular desk. I've been told my visa wasn't valid because there should be a blue copy instead of a red copy (he was wrong - as the INS eventually told me) I have been told that I'm only allowed so many visa waiver visits (wrong), that I can't visit my companies US office under visa waiver…

Your account has been hellbanned.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#70

Post by mullr »

westicle wrote: post #32
mullr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.

You genuinely don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with bitcoins? Or are you exaggerating to make a point? I think it is conceivable that he could fund his trip by bartering for the majority of his food and/or lodging using bitcoins. That is, it is a possibility that there are people in the United States who will accept bitcoins in return for providing food and/or lodging. And presumably as a "digital…

Indeed, I exaggerate a bit. But I think @praptak above expresses the issue admirably. It's not a question of possibility so much as one of trust, and it's a customs agent's job to be wary.
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