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Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

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Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#51

Post by jules »

colinplamondon wrote: post #24
heyimfromreddit wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're scr…

That's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy. CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

The reply of groby_b was wrongly killed.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#52

Post by robtoo »

SageRaven wrote: post #13

I found the part about them copying data from his phone and iPad more troublesome than the whole bitcoin thing. Why would a self-described "cypherpunk" travel with non-encrypted digital devices, anyway?

Immigration would also have been able to demand the password for his bitcoin wallet...

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#53

Post by dublinclontarf »

SageRaven wrote: post #13

I found the part about them copying data from his phone and iPad more troublesome than the whole bitcoin thing. Why would a self-described "cypherpunk" travel with non-encrypted digital devices, anyway?

Just to be clear, the phone and iPad had been wiped before coming and had just enough information on them to complete the trip, i.e. a map to the startpad.org office, and the needed phone numbers, nothing else.

The U.S. has internet access, so upload everything to the cloud(encrypted) and then sync when you get there, which is what the plan was.

Also having an encrypted device is useless if they can hold you until you open it.

Finally I was talking to someone about this yesterday evening, they had their laptop taken off them for about 10 minutes by the border agents, in that time they installed a rookit on it to track keystrokes.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#54

Post by dublinclontarf »

bdonlan wrote: post #12
edkennedy wrote: post #10

How would this be any different from bringing an equivalent value in "goods"? (whether they are digital or physical)

You would declare the goods you're importing (which brings with it its own set of issues when importing high-value goods). That said, it's unclear when or if bitcoins would be 'imported'. And it's also unclear whether, for example, someone bringing in $5000 worth of gold bullion via a passenger jet would be able to come in via visa waiver (they may classify selling it as a form of work). Anyway, the visa waiver progr…

The bitcoin is on a server, and is only "imported" once you download it.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#55

Post by Astrohacker »

StavrosK wrote: post #48
mike-cardwell wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This confused me as well. What possible reason could they have had to do that?

"Why not?"

That's probably the right answer, since they have the power to do this. But of course it is disturbing and unacceptable that they would violate someone's personal property with no crime or even a suspected crime having been committed (or even if there had been a crime committed). Unfortunately the only practical way to change this that I see is to wait for the US government to collapse due to its unsustainable financial policies.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#56

Post by sesqu »

liedra wrote: post #44
jrockway wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much true of clearing customs in any other country. The reason we hear so much about the US is because it's a really big country. (As an American, I hate crossing the UK border just as much as crossing the US border. What's the point of being in the EU if you aren't going to act like it? :)

The EU isn't Schengen, that's why.

But that's pretty much only because of the UK. There are a few countries that are supposed to be in the schengen area but aren't, a few countries that got in because it would have been impractical to keep them out, and the EU countries except the UK and Ireland (who are only out because of the UK).

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#57

Post by dedward »

cfgvjkljhgfb wrote: post #30
ars wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 1 is asking for serious trouble! Prison time even. Never lie to them. Even if you just intend to visit and and up doing some work you'll get in deep trouble, but if you lie about it from the start it'll be much worse. And they do sometimes check. A tourist visa and a work visa are not interchangeable.

He was on a visa waiver - if he is British that allows him to do anything you can do on a B1 business visa. In fact the only reason you have to get a B1 visa is because you can't use the visa waiver if you are, say a convicted criminal! You can work for your outside-the-US employer, you can collaborate with US customers, suppliers, partners, you can train them,you can sell, demonstrate and install products. About the…

Despite your visa waiver, you still have customs forms to fill out and they do ask whether or not you are on business or not. They're very clear that having a waiver, or even a visa, is not a guarantee of entry into the US and that ultimately it's up to the CBP agents.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#58

Post by khafra »

dublinclontarf wrote: post #53
SageRaven wrote: post #13

I found the part about them copying data from his phone and iPad more troublesome than the whole bitcoin thing. Why would a self-described "cypherpunk" travel with non-encrypted digital devices, anyway?

Just to be clear, the phone and iPad had been wiped before coming and had just enough information on them to complete the trip, i.e. a map to the startpad.org office, and the needed phone numbers, nothing else. The U.S. has internet access, so upload everything to the cloud(encrypted) and then sync when you get there, which is what the plan was. Also having an encrypted device is useless if they can hold you until yo…

> ...had their laptop taken off them for about 10 minutes by the border agents, in that time they installed a rookit on it to track keystrokes.

Really? How certain is he that the keylogger was a recent addition? I have a hard time believing that an ordinary border agent is that technically competent, even if he just had to put in a usb device and select a few menu options.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#59

Post by cfgvjkljhgfb »

Astrohacker wrote: post #22
umright wrote: post #19

Advice for crossing the US Border. 1) You are there on a holiday. Telling them you are self employed and going to work in an office you are renting there is only asking for trouble. It confuses the hell out of them. You think where you do the work from doesn't matter, they think you need a visa. You lose. 2) If you are going for a conference, print the badge off before your flight and have it with you. 3) Email or up…

This is good advice, but of course it's pretty absurd that anyone has to take these steps to avoid the overly invasive US government.

What is absurd is that whether you can enter or not isn't down to any rule - it's down to the particular low paid moron on the particular desk.

I've been told my visa wasn't valid because there should be a blue copy instead of a red copy (he was wrong - as the INS eventually told me) I have been told that I'm only allowed so many visa waiver visits (wrong), that I can't visit my companies US office under visa waiver (wrong)

It's as if every time an airbus landed at a US airport it was upto the baggage handler to decide if it met FAA requirements

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#60

Post by eli »

jrockway wrote: post #40
bdonlan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.

If you are carrying more than $10,000 worth of securities or cash, you have to declare that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning more than $10,000 worth of securities and liquidating them while you're visiting the US. Here's the official government documentation on the matter: http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/tr... "If you receive in the US, currency ... exceeding $10,0000 at one…

But everyone entering the United States has to fill out a customs declaration that lists the value of goods being brought into the country.
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