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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

bbc.com

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#721

Post by toomuchtodo »

rocgf wrote: post #718
titzer wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon emissions of my flight. I will pay it. So what you're saying is that it won't change your behavior. Why don't you just donate $1000 or whatever to a charity? (I dunno, maybe you already do). I don't mean to attack you, but encoded in your very language is the exact problem. No one is willing to change their own behavior…

Pardon me, but your post is just about virtue signalling or you're missing the point entirely. If you increase the taxes for something, you will drop the demand and, therefore, consumption. It doesn't matter whether OP will change his/her behaviour, it matter that we, as a planet of people taking X flights per year, will reduce our flights by Y% due to tax. I don't want to change my behaviour because that doesn't fix…

> I want to be forced to changed my behaviour, along with everyone else on the planet, through taxation for which I am happy to vote for and support with all my being.

I agree with you, and do so with my fiat (EVs, solar, no air travel unless absolutely necessary, vegetarian, etc). There are billions of global citizens who likely don’t agree with you (or us), who will happily consume regardless of the consequences (and either can’t or won’t pay for the per ton emissions).

The challenge is in changing the behavior of disinterested or adversarial parties in the face of political apathy. It’s going to get uncomfortable.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#722

Post by rmoon »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

"if the world acts fast".., from the article, then I understand that it is going to be really difficult too.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#723

Post by frankbreetz »

rebuilder wrote: post #697
habosa wrote: post #621

Just. Tax. It. We have warmed the earth because we love comfort and money. We will never stop loving those things. So instead let's use the same systems to fix this (or at least slow things down). As an individual my largest carbon impact is air travel. I like to go places, it's one of the main things I work to afford. Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon em…

The problem is, just taxing CO2 emissions doesn't let you control who gets hit by the price increases. It could very well lead to increases in food and transportation costs that would be disproportionately burdensome to the poorest part of the population. Raising the cost of those items is politically very unpopular since it tends to cause unrest. So I think what we'll get instead is some complex system of first taxi…

If you use carbon tax to fund ubi, it will only hit above average emitters, who will be incentivised to emit less.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#724

Post by ttobbaybbob »

Climate engineering is obviously incredibly fraught for a variety of reasons (unintended consequences/etc) but at what point do we start to consider it ? start developing and evaluating technologies related to it ? it seems like it would be something we want in the toolbox since its a solution orthogonal to consumption of carbon

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#725

Post by joshmarlow »

glogla wrote: post #658
jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Seeing the Apple thing and the Australis thing and the EU thing, I'm happy humanity will kill itself by Climate Change. We have built systems that make it impossible for evil to fail, it will always succeed. You can see it popping up everywhere - loss of privacy, climate change denialism, covid denialism, fascism everywhere, chinese extermination camps, ... We will all die out and it is a good thing. We will all suff…

Even assuming your take is right and humanity deserves the fate we're actively constructing, it's not just our fate. We're a hardy and clever species - by the time we are extinct from climate change, it'll be a hard environment for mammals in general. Even if you believe we deserve to go, it's still worth trying to fix things for those who can't.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#727

Post by cannabis_sam »

blhack wrote: post #626
habosa wrote: post #621

Just. Tax. It. We have warmed the earth because we love comfort and money. We will never stop loving those things. So instead let's use the same systems to fix this (or at least slow things down). As an individual my largest carbon impact is air travel. I like to go places, it's one of the main things I work to afford. Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon em…

How do you make the major polluters pay the tax?

By reducing the “freedom” of corporations. (Of course, this requires your country to not have surrendered to regulatory capture.)

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#728

Post by ihuk »

habosa wrote: post #621

Just. Tax. It. We have warmed the earth because we love comfort and money. We will never stop loving those things. So instead let's use the same systems to fix this (or at least slow things down). As an individual my largest carbon impact is air travel. I like to go places, it's one of the main things I work to afford. Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon em…

Where would that money go though?

Do you honestly believe that given enough money politicians can come up with a viable solution for climate change? Mind you those are the same people who want to end privacy on the Internet[1].

Same people who came up with European Union’s biofuel mandate which caused deforestation of Indonesia for palm-oil plantations. Across the pond, it's the same people that subsidized ethanol fuel which, more or less, benefited only corn farmers.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115343

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#729

Post by cdcadmits »

1967: ‘Dire famine by 1975.’ - Source: Salt Lake Tribune, November 17, 1967

1969: ‘Everyone will disappear in a cloud of blue steam by 1989.’ - Source: New York Times, August 10 1969

1970: Ice age by 2000 - Source: Boston Globe, April 16, 1970

1970: ‘America subject to water rationing by 1974 and food rationing by 1980.’ - Source: Redlands Daily Facts, October 6, 1970

1971: ‘New Ice Age Coming’ - Source: Washington Post, July 9, 1971

1972: New ice age by 2070 - Source: NOAA, October 2015

1974: ‘New Ice Age Coming Fast’ - Source: The Guardian, January 29, 1974

1974: ‘Another Ice Age?’ - Source: TIME, June 24, 1974

1974: Ozone Depletion a ‘Great Peril to Life’ -

1976: ‘The Cooling’ - Source: New York Times Book Review, July 18, 1976

1980: ‘Acid Rain Kills Life in Lakes’ - Noblesville Ledger (Noblesville, IN) April 9, 1980

1978: ‘No End in Sight’ to 30-Year Cooling Trend - Source: New York Times, January 5, 1978

1988: James Hansen forecasts increase regional drought in 1990s - Source: RealClimateScience.com

1988: Washington DC days over 90F to from 35 to 85 - Source: RealClimateScience.com

1988: Maldives completely under water in 30 years - Source: Agence France Press, September 26, 1988

1989: Rising seas to ‘obliterate’ nations by 2000 - Source: Associated Press, June 30, 1989

1989: New York City’s West Side Highway underwater by 2019 - Source: Salon.com, October 23, 2001

1995 to Present: Climate Model Failure - Source: CEI.org

2000: ‘Children won’t know what snow is.' - Source: The Independent, March 20, 2000

2002: Famine in 10 years - Source: The Guardian, December 23, 2002

2004: Britain to have Siberian climate by 2020 - Source: The Guardian, February 21, 2004

2008: Arctic will be ice-free by 2018 - Source: Associated Press, June 24, 2008

2008: Al Gore warns of ice-free Arctic by 2013 - Source: WattsUpWithThat.com, December 16, 2018

2009: Prince Charles says only 8 years to save the planet - Source: The Independent, July 9, 2009

2009: UK prime minister says 50 days to ‘save the planet from catastrophe’ - Source: The Independent: October 20, 2009

2009: Arctic ice-free by 2014 - Source: USA Today, December 14, 2009

2013: Arctic ice-free by 2015 - Source: The Guardian, July 24, 2013

2013: Arctic ice-free by 2016 - Source: The Guardian, December 9, 2013

2014: Only 500 days before ‘climate chaos’ - Sources: Washington Examiner

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#730

Post by justin66 »

collegecamp293 wrote: post #192
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' What almost alarms me more than the thought of a climate apocalypse is that I don't think this (a UN report) is going to have any effect on the opinions of 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference, perhaps we (as a species) don't deserv…

Well, the 40% are certainly not going be convinced if the "first United States Special Presidential Envoy for Climate" flew on his private jet 16 times to places like Martha's Vineyard since January. Can the leaders of climate action actually live up to their own standards?

> Well, the 40% are certainly not going be convinced if the "first United States Special Presidential Envoy for Climate" flew on his private jet 16 times to places like Martha's Vineyard since January.

Why?

I mean, okay, getting angry about hypocrisy is fun. But why would you allow someone else's hypocrisy to sway your view of what is or is not objectively true? That is not critical thinking.

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