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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

bbc.com

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#361

Post by sundvor »

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

Do what we do in Vic, Australia: Add usage tax for EVs, with only a narrow timed limited vehicle discount for standard range EVs. And not a single ICEV co² tax in sight.

That'll help (the oil companies).

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#362

Post by jussij »

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

For anyone concerned about climate change, the most important thing you can do is cast a vote for a political party that the issue seriously.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#363

Post by AstralStorm »

bb123 wrote: post #89
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' What almost alarms me more than the thought of a climate apocalypse is that I don't think this (a UN report) is going to have any effect on the opinions of 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference, perhaps we (as a species) don't deserv…

Do you not think that "code red" fatigue is part of this? Ordinary people are bombarded with messages predicting doom at some distant point in the future for one reason or another on an almost daily basis, and yet life rolls on.

Nah, people dismissed these warnings when they were new in 50s, applied at best patches that made them feel good when problems became apparent in 90s and so on.

It's not fatigue, it's ostrich politics. "If I don't look at it, it will go away." But it's not a predator, it's essentially a force of nature. We had this kind of (then social) problems being ignored lead to huge revolutions in the past. But this time, getting the head of a few lords abd ladies will be insufficient.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#364

Post by TaupeRanger »

headmelted wrote: post #35
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' What almost alarms me more than the thought of a climate apocalypse is that I don't think this (a UN report) is going to have any effect on the opinions of 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference, perhaps we (as a species) don't deserv…

That's all but inevitable at this stage. The same is true for New York - any city at or only slightly above sea level is a foregone conclusion. Fluid dynamics don't care about your politics. If it helps, going by elevation maps Disney World should survive with a lot of weather hardening!

New York will figure out how to save itself. It's all the poor towns and cities around the world that will be obvious problems.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#365

Post by unionpivo »

rich_sasha wrote: post #228
nosianu wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production Not really. For some reason the actually quite simple problem is needlessly complicated in the discussions. Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. Any carbon above ground is part of the cycle that includes atmospheric CO2. You need huge effort to change how much of it is in CO2 form at any time while still ha…

You're describing the objective function, but ignoring the constraints. Stop digging up coal - fine. Cut off power to people who have no other power sources? Erm... What about emergency diesel generators for hospitals, diesel use for shipping goods (lowest-carbon-emitting means of transport). It's just not that simple.

Diesel generators run on any kind of oil including kitchen oil.

For emergency generators, that would be enough. For everything else we use oil for, not so much.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#366

Post by jordanbeiber »

jokoon wrote: post #329

I'm still very skeptical how the measures will take into effect if they ever happen. In france the yellow vests protest was caused by a planned carbon tax increase on gas. Car dependent citizens rioted. A carbon tax will reduce the living standard of everyone, and it will take time for society to readjust. I really think the economy will tank and take a lot of time to adjust to a green economy, as it's not only elect…

There’s several other pullutants removed by moving to electric transportation, not only co2.

In densely populated areas we’re seeing severe effects on our health thanks to all the other crap being emitted by burning fossil fuels.

I believe in a 100 years people will be like: “…and they burned this crap in the middle of where they lived?! Crazy stuff”.

But yeah, otherwise I agree - it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type situation.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#367

Post by carrolldunham »

shadowfaxRodeo wrote: post #276

The internet causes around 5% of global carbon emmissions. It's invisible, and difficult to measure, so little gets done about it. But if you're a developer who wants to help. Check out: https://sustainablewebdesign.org/ Pretty much all the solutions to making a greener web would make the web better in general. - Send less data (efficient video, images, fonts, etc) - Make fewer requests - Use a CDN (the greenest one…

  >*Stop collecting vast amounts of personal data*
This is why I left and denounce green movements. It's always (on an individual activist up to organization level), a front for completely unrelated ideological agendas.

Edit: 'A front' is too strong - a convenient vector. But you poison the well by failing to restrain yourself from slipping that stuff in.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#368

Post by Throwaway197401 »

clydethefrog wrote: post #356
Throwaway197401 wrote: post #341

Anyone who claims to be "following the science" knows that there is no such thing as "code red" in science and lo and behold it's not what the IPCC report says but a UN representative. This is a media and ideologically driven narrative and have absolutely nothing to do with reality yet it's used to scare people who can do absolutely nothing and will only be used to push draconian and anti-human decisions on the energ…

I saw the IPCC press conference this morning. I don't recall the scientists getting less concerned, in fact, it was quite the opposite. I am interested in where in the conference or in the report where they claim thing are less severe than they thought. Also the positive sides seem interesting, could you also link the section in the IPCC report?

Read the report. It doesn't matter what they say at a press conference which is created to push a certain political agenda.

The only thing that matters is what can be scientifically demonstrated, not just speculated. From that make your own assessment.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#369

Post by grumblenum »

nosianu wrote: post #201
rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production Not really. For some reason the actually quite simple problem is needlessly complicated in the discussions. Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. Any carbon above ground is part of the cycle that includes atmospheric CO2. You need huge effort to change how much of it is in CO2 form at any time while still ha…

Ah, so we just eliminate low-cost transportation, agriculture, textiles and consumer goods and consequently starve billions of people. A modest proposal for such an ill-specified problem with unfalsifiable causes. I like it.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#370

Post by npteljes »

belorn wrote: post #346
rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

There were a study done in Sweden a few years ago that looked at the question about an individuals actions and the corresponding CO2 production. No car > skipping flight > buy green energy > Get a electric car > diet. https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/four-lifestyle-choi...

How could you leave out the one with the biggest impact, which is basically "less humans"?
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