Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#211

Post by zejn » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

The easiest way to approach this is to "stop burning stuff". Is a material being burned? Then it almost certainly emits CO2. Do you call it fuel? Stop using it or use it as little as possible.

Most personal energy use is for heating living spaces and transportation. EVs are great for transportation, e-bikes are even better. Heat pumps are great for heating and cooling living spaces. Using these one can drastically reduce direct personal CO2 emissions. Sure, you're then buying electricity and part of electricity is produced by burning stuff. If possible, you should then get solar panels, to at least offset the amount of electricity used.

With regard to purchasing one should regard objects that have been over temperature of boiling water as things that took a significat amount of energy to be created: food is cooked, metals and glass are melted, and so on. Is there a way to reuse them, or at least recycle?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#212

Post by rob_c » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

shadowfaxRodeo wrote: post #188

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

Even if every person on the planet did what you reasonably expect of yourself, we would still not even be close to reducing CO2 production. By all means do those things. But if you want to make a real difference you need to look beyond your own activities. Change your community, your company, your industry. What can you do that changes the defaults for everyone else? Try and find low-hanging fruit. Join your local cl…

Not sure what solutions that group is supposed to be espoucing but they're mostly just a political lobbying group.

Frankly until the shouting and arguing stops and someone who can make a difference comes to the table I'm out. There is was too much posturing which makes no difference and is bad on both sides from plastic signs complaining about pollution to politicians who travel from ecological disaster to ecological disaster via private jet, and that's even before you realise just how in the pocket mainstream politicians of both sides are to the current status quo.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#213

Post by em500 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

polote wrote: post #59

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' What almost alarms me more than the thought of a climate apocalypse is that I don't think this (a UN report) is going to have any effect on the opinions of 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference, perhaps we (as a species) don't deserv…

> 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. These people are not the ones who need to take action, so who cares? Policy makers are the ones who need to act, and they are already well aware for most of the consequences of global warming. The issue is that a lot of big corporations (The ones which really control police makers) are not going to be advantaged by transforming the…

Blaming "big corporations" for our woes looks pretty unconstructive to me. Most big corporations got big by giving consumers what they want. Trying to reduce emissions through big corporations (AFAICT the focus will be largely on energy, transport and construction) means making their products more expensive, which always triggers responses of regressiveness / inequality, short-circuiting the whole debate.

Put in another way: regardless whether execs at the oil and flight companies are to blame, or their flying and driving customers, a solution must involve large reductions in the amount of fuel burnt (which inevitably requires making that much more expensive than it is now).

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#214

Post by jokoon » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #77

As usual the elephant in the room is the global population. We can't eradicate poverty, protect the environment, and maintain the human population we currently have. Bikeshedding is always easier than facing hard issues so people focus on marginal things, like air travel or plastic cups, rather than facing the root cause of it all. Do we want all humans to have a good life with high living standards among a thriving…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism#Criticism

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#215

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #44

qeternity wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cost cutting Do you mind elaborating more on this? Is it just a matter of consuming less == fewer costs?

Also buy higher quality products, ideally used instead of cheaper products new. Repairing instead of throwing away. Avoiding unnecessary consumption, choosing what I prioritize. Edit, another: Thinking smart wrt transport, haven't used car to get to work since maybe 10 years ago.

> Edit, another: Thinking smart wrt transport, haven't used car to get to work since maybe 10 years ago.

The problem is, outside of urban areas there simply is no alternative to owning a car because public transport has never been built or torn down.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#216

Post by clydethefrog » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

konspence wrote: post #93

matco11 wrote: post #16

> This pact aims to keep the rise in global temperatures well below 2C this century and to pursue efforts to keep it under 1.5C. It seems to me that continuing to communicate just the average temperature increase is a missed opportunity to engage with a greater portion of the population. 1.5 or 2 degrees do not seem like much, but once one understands that’s an average made out of much bigger positive and negative sw…

There's nothing to "keep" under 1.5C, we are pretty much already there when error bars are considered. 2C is going to be breached regardless because even if we went carbon neutral today we have decades of locked in warming. Why the scientists are not communicating this information which has been in pop-science (as early as An Inconvenient Truth (2006), which documents the lag between CO2 rise and temp rise) is beyond…

Because they are not popscientist, but a very professional body of scientists that will only go for the most conservative, solid information.

What also plays a role is that before the final report it has to be seen and corrected by governmental representatives.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#217

Post by zejn » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #202

czzr wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inability of the US to pass a carbon tax will be one of humanities great tragedies. That they are the theoretical champions of the free market is just piling cruel irony on top of that.

It's not just US. Is there a real carbon tax anywhere at all?

It is. EU has CO2 emissions trading at about 50 EUR per ton and rising.

Even China has just recently established a national CO2 trading scheme.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#218

Post by captainmuon » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

I don't think conscious customers can steer the economy quickly enough. If we stop emitting any greenhouse gases today, global warming will still accelerate for more than a decade. (And I don't believe very much in boycotts anyway - when a customer decides to switch to a different product, marginal price changes are likely to cause another customer to switch the other way, simply speaking.)

I think at this point we need an international coalition that slams the breaks and sets a strict deadline for ceasing CO2 emission. If there are not severe shortages, it means we are not strict enough and can go faster. And then let the market work. If a steak costs $100 or you have to wait 3 years for a car, that's sucks, but so be it.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#219

Post by rich_sasha » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

shadowfaxRodeo wrote: post #188

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

Even if every person on the planet did what you reasonably expect of yourself, we would still not even be close to reducing CO2 production. By all means do those things. But if you want to make a real difference you need to look beyond your own activities. Change your community, your company, your industry. What can you do that changes the defaults for everyone else? Try and find low-hanging fruit. Join your local cl…

It's a start though. It makes the CO2 use visible and transparent. I reckon so many people would care a lot about carbon in electricity if their itemised power bill included a fat slice of 'carbon'. Suddenly there would be pressure to decarbonise etc. Large companies could optimise their (significant at scale) bill for carbon use. Do the PCs really have to run 24/7 for example?

It's the old 'you cannot improve what you cannot measure'.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#220

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #69

skinkestek wrote: post #31

So now we can get rid of fast fashion, mandate reusability for products, reintroduce basic woodworking, metalcrafting and sewing/repair work in school and with that get rid of a huge chunk of the needless shipping? Or are we still going to go after individuals eating traditional food while thought leaders fly across the globe in private jets (no kidding) telling us we need to change our diet? PS: I'm already a enthus…

I think we should do neither. Impose a co2 emissions tax and let the market figure it out.

> Impose a co2 emissions tax and let the market figure it out.

Aka those who are rich will simply buy their way out of having to change, and the poor masses will have to bear the load. Neo-feudalism is not the answer to climate change - the problem starts with capitalism.