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Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

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Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#31

Post by seanhunter »

Weirdly pointless article to have on the front page. the author literally gives the explanation in the first paragraph- with throwing events absolute distance has to be weighed against safety of officials, other athletes running on the track and spectators in the stadium beyond.

Very unfortunate timing unearthing this right now too given that a great throw by Chopra and the inability of the favourites to perform under the conditions has just given India their first ever olympic gold medal in track and field.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#32

Post by msravi »

arey_abhishek wrote: post #9

Fun fact. Uwe Hohn, the permanent record holder, is the coach for this year's Olympic gold medalist.

Actually, no. Neeraj Chopra trained with Uwe Hohn until 2019, but then (Chopra) asked for a change. His coach over the last 2 years in the run up to the Olympics has been Klaus Bartonietz.

1. https://sportstar.thehindu.com/olympics/tokyo-olympics/neera...

2. https://thebridge.in/athletics/tokyo-olympics-neeraj-chopra-...

3. https://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/olympics/2021/aug/08/...

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#33

Post by prof-dr-ir »

londgine wrote: post #13
yathern wrote: post #2

The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standa…

swimming technique and bicycle technically have improved a lot and all of the grading sports (gymnastics, diving) are constantly being changed since they were introduced into the Olympics. That is why so many of those records could be beaten. However it looks like Olympic archery does not allow a compound bow. I guess every sport decides if they want innovation or not.

Cycling is actually another notorious example of a sport where the rules are holding back significant innovation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recumbent_bicycle

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#34

Post by pseudo0 »

decker wrote: post #14

I'm surprised the article didn't mention the atlatl which would have been the true historic answer to "how far did cavemen throw spears?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear-thrower

It does mention the ankyle, a leather strap that served a similar purpose by increasing the effective length of the throwing arm. I guess some cavemen used ankyles and others used atlatls?

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#35

Post by jespere1 »

I don’t get the point of this article. Maybe it’s satire? What else does the author want? Boxing without gloves? Fencing with real swords? Perhaps the ancients won’t be so impressed with the absence of blood drawn? If a caveman is unimpressed by how far the modern javelin travels we could just hand one to him/her see how far they can throw it?

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#36

Post by eklavyaa »

Flex247A wrote: post #20
eklavyaa wrote: post #19

India just had its first gold in track and fields in 100 years in Tokyo 2020, in Javelin throw, and What might be the intention to post this blog from 2012 now ? Its offensive.

HackerNews is not about India.

My comment is not about HN, its about India

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#37

Post by bryanrasmussen »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #25
londgine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

swimming technique and bicycle technically have improved a lot and all of the grading sports (gymnastics, diving) are constantly being changed since they were introduced into the Olympics. That is why so many of those records could be beaten. However it looks like Olympic archery does not allow a compound bow. I guess every sport decides if they want innovation or not.

So what? Are people really not participating in a sport because there is no hope of breaking a WR? Sports are about fun and competition and sometimes exercise. I’d also argue there is a difference between rules about equipment and rules about technique. Technique rules may have to be adjusted more often because if an athletes does something unusual that is within the current rule set but may be seen as advantageous,…

>Sports are about fun and competition and sometimes exercise.

part of the competition part would be breaking records.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#38

Post by renewiltord »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5
yathern wrote: post #2

The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standa…

> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?

The reason for the permanent world record is in the article. The new standardization made the javelin fall 10% short.

> in 1986 the International Association of Athletics Federations' technical committee authorized a new javelin design. The center of gravity was moved 1.6 inches forward, the tip was modified to make the javelin less aerodynamic, meaning it would nose down earlier and land sooner, reducing average flight distance by about 10 percent.

The permanent WR is unfortunate in that it was engineered. It would be like moving the 100 m to an incline of 12% and calling it the same sport.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#39

Post by vikiomega9 »

p1key wrote: post #24
peeters wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain why a WR from 10 years after those changes hasn't been even close to beaten recently.

But it has been close? Johannes Vetter got a result of 97.76m under a year ago, that is only 0.72m shy of the world record. Also the reason he was underperforming in the olympics was that the surface of the run-up track was not able to take his weight on the final step and he would slip, making it impossible to perform on his normal high level.

Source for the reason Johannes Vetter failed? Does not look like this was covered well in the press.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#40

Post by happymellon »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #37
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? Are people really not participating in a sport because there is no hope of breaking a WR? Sports are about fun and competition and sometimes exercise. I’d also argue there is a difference between rules about equipment and rules about technique. Technique rules may have to be adjusted more often because if an athletes does something unusual that is within the current rule set but may be seen as advantageous,…

>Sports are about fun and competition and sometimes exercise. part of the competition part would be breaking records.

Competition is about beating other people, not necessarily records.
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