Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
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Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#2The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten.
Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw.
Standards must be made to judge fair competition among participants. Yes, they're a little bit arbitrary - the 100M dash could very well be a 106M dash. But that wouldn't make the athletes 6% more impressive. Likewise, we could improve our javelins every year to get further and further throws. But our global interest isn't on the throw, but the thrower.
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#3Javelin is a bit of an outlier in the Olympics in that throws today are nowhere near the records, even after the changes discussed in the article. The winning throw this year was 87.58m, with only one other competitor managing even 86m. The world record, dating from 1996, is 98.48m, a full 10 meters and then some longer. Germany's Vetter, the one modern javelin thrower who has come within striking distance of that (96m), was off his game and couldn't even get over 85m.
So why are we so much worse than 25 years ago? The obvious explanation would doping.
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#4I'm struggling to understand the argument. Zelezny undoubtedly threw farther than any prehistoric thrower, and he undoubtedly killed fewer meals with a spear, too. As a former have thrower I used to wonder what Jan would have done with the old jav...
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#5The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standa…
> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate.
Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#6Javelin is a bit of an outlier in the Olympics in that throws today are nowhere near the records, even after the changes discussed in the article. The winning throw this year was 87.58m, with only one other competitor managing even 86m. The world record, dating from 1996, is 98.48m , a full 10 meters and then some longer. Germany's Vetter, the one modern javelin thrower who has come within striking distance of that (…
From TFA:
“ Also, javelins were increasingly landing flat, instead of poking upright into the turf, making distance-marking difficult, so in 1986 the International Association of Athletics Federations' technical committee authorized a new javelin design. The center of gravity was moved 1.6 inches forward, the tip was modified to make the javelin less aerodynamic, meaning it would nose down earlier and land sooner, reducing average flight distance by about 10 percent.”
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#7The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standa…
> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?
Attainable goals are more motivating and meaningful than unattainable ones. It's in many ways a different event because the equipment is different, so why should a record for a different event stand.
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#8Javelin is a bit of an outlier in the Olympics in that throws today are nowhere near the records, even after the changes discussed in the article. The winning throw this year was 87.58m, with only one other competitor managing even 86m. The world record, dating from 1996, is 98.48m , a full 10 meters and then some longer. Germany's Vetter, the one modern javelin thrower who has come within striking distance of that (…
I think you deeply misunderstand the statistical nature of a world record. there is a piece out there somewhere about zelezney's record being a more significant outlier than Bolt's. But to be clear, you're insinuating that Jan was a cheat? I had training sessions with the former AR holder and numerous conversations with a former WR holder and threw at a high level. I'm quite familiar with the sport and I'm truly curious as to whether you're making this claim about JZ and if you could name 10 throwers without Googling it.
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#9Fun fact. Uwe Hohn, the permanent record holder, is the coach for this year's Olympic gold medalist.
Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)
#10The temptation to compare athletic and sporting performances between different eras, is doomed to disappointment.
Whilst we could standardise a javelin, we can’t recreate the culture, diet, stadia etc of bygone epochs, so the comparisons will always be qualified or debased.
It is frustrating that we don’t have time machines,but perhaps that’s a reason to think further about what it is that fascinates us about athletic and sporting contests.