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Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

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Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#21

Post by jbay808 »

838812052807016 wrote: post #18

> Best Ever? > Lots of athletes come to the Olympics hoping to be the Best Ever. But not javelin throwers. They've been told to dream smaller dreams ("Best Since 1984!") and I think that's a bum deal. > Why not take this event away from crowded arenas, go someplace safe, design the best flying spear possible, throw it as far as you can, and then whoever breaks the record can say to all spear throwers going back over…

Unfortunately, that just sets the world record for the farthest freestyle javelin throw even farther back, to 1977, when Voyager 1 was launched.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#22

Post by simcop2387 »

838812052807016 wrote: post #18

> Best Ever? > Lots of athletes come to the Olympics hoping to be the Best Ever. But not javelin throwers. They've been told to dream smaller dreams ("Best Since 1984!") and I think that's a bum deal. > Why not take this event away from crowded arenas, go someplace safe, design the best flying spear possible, throw it as far as you can, and then whoever breaks the record can say to all spear throwers going back over…

> Maybe the best design would use a rail-gun as a booster.

And pitch-o-mat 5000 was just a modified howitzer. I agree though, a line should be drawn otherwise you can end up with things going a bit absurd. It's similar to hoe stock-csr and forumla 1 racing draw lines about what things are allowed to be done to the cars.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#23

Post by lelanthran »

getlawgdon wrote: post #8
Clewza313 wrote: post #3

Javelin is a bit of an outlier in the Olympics in that throws today are nowhere near the records, even after the changes discussed in the article. The winning throw this year was 87.58m, with only one other competitor managing even 86m. The world record, dating from 1996, is 98.48m , a full 10 meters and then some longer. Germany's Vetter, the one modern javelin thrower who has come within striking distance of that (…

I think you deeply misunderstand the statistical nature of a world record. there is a piece out there somewhere about zelezney's record being a more significant outlier than Bolt's. But to be clear, you're insinuating that Jan was a cheat? I had training sessions with the former AR holder and numerous conversations with a former WR holder and threw at a high level. I'm quite familiar with the sport and I'm truly curi…

> I'm quite familiar with the sport and I'm truly curious as to whether you're making this claim about JZ and if you could name 10 throwers without Googling it.

What does his claim[1] have to do with knowing who the throwers are?

FWIW, I think that, if you look at a sport and find that the performance of athletes in that sport decreased significantly after the introduction of more comprehensive drug testing, then it is not unreasonable to assume the higher performance was due to drug-related enhancements.

[1] He's just making a point about the statistics. We don't need to know the name of the data points.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#24

Post by p1key »

peeters wrote: post #11
mikehotel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From TFA: “ Also, javelins were increasingly landing flat, instead of poking upright into the turf, making distance-marking difficult, so in 1986 the International Association of Athletics Federations' technical committee authorized a new javelin design. The center of gravity was moved 1.6 inches forward, the tip was modified to make the javelin less aerodynamic, meaning it would nose down earlier and land sooner, re…

That doesn't explain why a WR from 10 years after those changes hasn't been even close to beaten recently.

But it has been close? Johannes Vetter got a result of 97.76m under a year ago, that is only 0.72m shy of the world record. Also the reason he was underperforming in the olympics was that the surface of the run-up track was not able to take his weight on the final step and he would slip, making it impossible to perform on his normal high level.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#25

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

londgine wrote: post #13
yathern wrote: post #2

The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standa…

swimming technique and bicycle technically have improved a lot and all of the grading sports (gymnastics, diving) are constantly being changed since they were introduced into the Olympics. That is why so many of those records could be beaten. However it looks like Olympic archery does not allow a compound bow. I guess every sport decides if they want innovation or not.

So what? Are people really not participating in a sport because there is no hope of breaking a WR? Sports are about fun and competition and sometimes exercise.

I’d also argue there is a difference between rules about equipment and rules about technique. Technique rules may have to be adjusted more often because if an athletes does something unusual that is within the current rule set but may be seen as advantageous, you have to make a decision.

With equipment you can just say no. Those Nike running shoes are banned, full body swim suits are banned. The javelin is just another ban. With equipment, it also effects athletes uniformly, everyone must change to the new equipment. So no one is unfairly penalised.

Why do the records need to fall?

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#26

Post by compsciphd »

coopsmoss wrote: post #7
thaumasiotes wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?

Attainable goals are more motivating and meaningful than unattainable ones. It's in many ways a different event because the equipment is different, so why should a record for a different event stand.

there's no reason to not have something that's the "world record" under current rules.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#27

Post by nvader »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #5
yathern wrote: post #2

The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standa…

> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?

Improved nutrition, sports science and innovations in the biomechanics of throwing.

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#28

Post by sschueller »

getlawgdon wrote: post #8
Clewza313 wrote: post #3

Javelin is a bit of an outlier in the Olympics in that throws today are nowhere near the records, even after the changes discussed in the article. The winning throw this year was 87.58m, with only one other competitor managing even 86m. The world record, dating from 1996, is 98.48m , a full 10 meters and then some longer. Germany's Vetter, the one modern javelin thrower who has come within striking distance of that (…

I think you deeply misunderstand the statistical nature of a world record. there is a piece out there somewhere about zelezney's record being a more significant outlier than Bolt's. But to be clear, you're insinuating that Jan was a cheat? I had training sessions with the former AR holder and numerous conversations with a former WR holder and threw at a high level. I'm quite familiar with the sport and I'm truly curi…

It is quite possible that compounds that were legal back then are no longer legal. So someone could have legally used them and therefore would not be considered a "cheat".

Re: Embarrassed by your Olympic javelin: did cavemen do it better? (2012)

#30

Post by vigothehacker »

eklavyaa wrote: post #19

India just had its first gold in track and fields in 100 years in Tokyo 2020, in Javelin throw, and What might be the intention to post this blog from 2012 now ? Its offensive.

Also this post was made by an Indian username. Kinda depressing.
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