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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#331

Post by AlbertCory »

shadowgovt wrote: post #289
AlbertCory wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your evidence for that statement? I worked there 11 1/2 years, and by the way was not fired. However, I saw many people fired. There were probably many more placed on a Performance Improvement Plan who subsequently quit rather than get fired.

My evidence is all the coworkers I saw who didn't get fired. To clarify: I mean in the rank and file software engineering. If you make legal's job hard or give the company a public black eye, that can be a short path to dismissal. (It's a big company, so I wouldn't be surprised if, perhaps, it also varies from department to department. I have no idea if the YouTube piece and the ads piece have the same policies).

You'd have to compare the firing rate at Google to other large companies, and that would be very difficult data to gather. Particularly when "firing" can take the form of the manager telling someone "you might want to start looking for another job."

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#332

Post by user-the-name »

horrified wrote: post #325
user-the-name wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The complaints in the article sound ridiculous Or maybe they are so far removed from the actual events that you can not tell the seriousness of them from just a random news article? Is it so hard to just trust the people who say his behaviour was awful?

I trust that the people felt his behaviour was awful. If they don't like working with him, they can switch jobs. Or even complain to higher ups and what not. What is not OK imo is this appeal to some imaginary "societal moral court" that should somehow punish the guy.

Why are you arguing that awful behaviour should have consequences for those it is direct at, rather than for the person who commits it?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#333

Post by [deleted] »

ramraj07 wrote: post #183
shadowgovt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is generally loathe to fire unless they absolutely have to, so this explanation tracks.

Except if it’s a black female AI ethicist questioning some choices made by your company I suppose.

[deleted]

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#334

Post by lazide »

sjg007 wrote: post #206
truetraveller wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm against screaming. But doing someone once or twice in year, is not the same as doing something everyday. There's no mention, at all, about how frequent his outbursts / yelling / screaming was. This is precisely the issue.

There’s no place for screaming at someone in the workplace or even in the home unless someone’s life is in danger and you’re trying to save them. It’s low EQ.

Amen. Literally the only time I can think it might be a reasonable thing is to scream ‘watch out’ or the equivalent in a noisy environment at someone about to get run over or hit by something. And then it should kick off an investigation as to why that was necessary, because it shouldn’t be.

That said, I’ve definitely seen people say someone was screaming at them when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. So your mileage may vary.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#335

Post by lazide »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #311
lazide wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would if he wanted to, and it’s what we generally expect of good bosses. I don’t think there is any rule requiring it anywhere I’ve seen.

> I don’t think there is any rule requiring it anywhere I’ve seen. No one claimed there was. They said that not doing it makes him a bad boss. You seem to be in agreement.

Ah, but the context of the thread is more than that! The context is around outrage that he got promoted. And being promoted is about a lot more than if someone is a good boss, as painful as that is for many folks working for such a bad boss.

It’s possible to get an immense amount done and/or be remarkable effective despite being a bad boss - if the folks working for them put up with it.

And it isn’t illegal to be a bad boss, as long as someone is bad in specific ways and not others.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#336

Post by Tycho »

renewiltord wrote: post #310
Tycho wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More beholden to your programme. With a degree from Oxford, world is your oyster. Earlier also means younger and easier to mould.

So these kids are bright but don’t realize that if they got the degree, the world would be their oyster. Smart enough to be spies, dumb enough to actually be spies.

They need to choose: graduation + great career prospects, or guaranteed career but loss of alternative prospects. It’s not a case of the students being smart or dumb, it’s a case of the agencies realising that making the offer post-graduation gives them less leverage. Hypothetically.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#337

Post by SquishyPanda23 »

torstenvl wrote: post #301
SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the tech version of being edgy. Some people in tech like to believe that it takes a real asshole to get things done.

No. People in tech like to believe that holding people accountable is "abusive" or "bullying." Someone in this thread literally posted that shooting down someone's opinions is bullying, accusing someone of insufficient effort is bullying, working them hard is bullying. There are people in this world who actually care. They want to make a positive impact. Then leeches join their team and want to do the minimum. And wh…

> People in tech like to believe that holding people accountable is "abusive" or "bullying."

Nobody believes this. You are blinded by your politics.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#338

Post by orestarod »

truetraveller wrote: post #170
mcguire wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" ...but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen,... " After about 30 years in the industry, I suggest you reconsider your experience. The only place I've worked that had any kind of executive screaming was IBM, which was completely disfunctional. Someone who involuntarily screams at a coworker is someone who needs help.

There's a difference between one-off and frequent. Very big difference. A question to everyone: You screamed at anyone, ever? Oh, you screamed once, 5 years ago? Now you're a bully.

Of course if you scream you are a bully. Because you can only scream to someone in a lower position than you, by definition, and that is cowardice. You become outright hostile and let loose your childish immature selfish self because you feel safe and powerful enough to do so. That, is dysfunctional and unhonorablr and that's why I never scream.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#339

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

Volundr wrote: post #184
jay_kyburz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you stopped to think for a sec that some of us like screaming, and in some cultures a lot of screaming is common place. Screaming it not out of control, its using the volume of your voice to command attention. Perhaps the abuse is the thin skin. Perhaps the abuse is the lack of forgiveness. Perhaps the abuse is the failure to recognize we all have flaws.

> Have you stopped to think for a sec that some of us like screaming I don't care if you "like" screaming. There are lots of things I like to do that aren't appropriate in the workplace. If you want to go to a "scream club" and scream your heart out you do you. In the workplace as a corporate executive act like an adult. > and in some cultures a lot of screaming is common place By all means enlighten me as to in what…

screaming in a corporate setting is common for lebanon.

Im willing to bet the same is true for israel, croatia, and serbia

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#340

Post by [deleted] »

thereare5lights wrote: post #318
torstenvl wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh dear. I am afraid I must have communicated poorly or perhaps you misread the question. I am asking what the delta between set B (bullying) and set C (criminal activity) is. What false premise is there? If you don't think there's a delta, then you agree with me ab initio. If you do think there's a delta, then how can you say that asking what the delta is relies on a false premise?

And I'm telling you you can answer your own question by examining what the delta is between what is considered bullying between students in K-12 and criminal activity. Do you believe that bullying between students in K-12 is criminal activity. That's what I'm getting from you asking that question. Either that or you don't believe bullying is even a real thing.

[deleted]
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