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Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

clivethompson.medium.com

281–290 of 375 posts

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#281

CAPTCHAs are discriminating. They fail at what their name suggests they do occasionally. Which means they dehumanize humans. There are humans without eyesight, you know? And some of these have bad hearing. The web has decided that it is OK to classify these people are computers. And nobody cares because the solution is so convenient. Well, thats how society works.

They do have somewhat accessible alternative modes. Give them a try (these are even more dystopic — try having it read out some numbers for you to type).

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#282
post #140

I've read the whole article, and I see so many comments agreeing or even adding detail to the post. Am I really in the minority if this kind of thing couldn't even cross my mind or feels like written by someone living in a parallel universe? A few poorly shot street photos are "unbearably depressing"? And there's even a detailed explanation breaking it down into points, each one feeling more alien than the last. They…

> Is it because I live in a third world country Until I got there I was going to suggest that it was because you were too used to the scenes depicted - I'm not sure about the author (NYT contributor suggests but I think doesn't necessitate that he's American) but I think many Europeans find the scenes depicted quite unfamiliar and not in a particularly pleasant/intriguing/exciting way. The way towns & cities (to a la…

That would be my number 7 for the list. To a Dutchman it all seems so incredibly depressing that everything depicted is built for cars. Even the residential areas seem to prioritize driving over everything else. The humans aren't just gone from the pictures, they're not even welcome without a car. For someone who is used to just getting on a bicycle and go anywhere — safely and often faster than by car! — in the city I live in, this is just so depressing.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP obviously, but I’ve seen superficially similar cases. It is hard to put in words, but some people just wouldn’t need to be online/on smartphones if it wasn’t for the pandemic, and they wouldn’t have any specific issue in their day to day life. Perhaps drawing a parallel with social networks could help: when such a huge portion of the population is on facebook properties, it could look crazy to not have a faceb…

> but some people just wouldn’t need to be online/on smartphones if it wasn’t for the pandemic, and they wouldn’t have any specific issue in their day to day life. But now the pandemic has happened, being online is more important than ever, and there's probably no going back. I find it unacceptable to leave some people behind. I know that pessimism and cynicism about the Internet are fashionable these days. But we're…

> I find it unacceptable to leave some people behind

My interest is on what you see as actions related to that. We're a community mostly on the building the web side, bearing at least some responsibility of what "being online" means today.

Your describing them as left behind makes me think you see the current web as the way forward, but I don't know if it's a fair assumption on your position.

Arguably I see their lack of using online tools up to this point as a failure of those tools to provide enough value for the hassle, and the issues would be less to bring this people along than to come up with ways to bridge their world and ours.

We often talk of digital litteracy as if it was an unavoidable skill, but I kind think it's like positing that Amazonia tribes have to learn english. It could be better for them, but we could also have adaptation layers that make it work for them even if they stay in their culture and lifestyle.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#284
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just haven't had the practice/opportunity to develop this side of things That is one way of saying that he simply has not allowed trivial concepts like a bunch of boring pictures to affect his mood. Another way of saying this would be "that sounds good, I wish I were not so affected by these things but alas, I am" or "lucky you, maybe I can find a way to avoid these mind traps". There is no strength in weakness…

> there is no virtue in negativity or pessimism if we're oblivous to even the smallest things (boring pictures) that negatively impact us, we hinder ourselves to making the world better. And that's not something we want, everything is shit already. Oh and this whole "Just don't" dissmissal... Check your privilege, man, and develop some damn empathy.

> Oh and this whole "Just don't" dissmissal... Check your privilege, man, and develop some damn empathy.

Soft healers make smelly wounds [1]:

British Journal of Guidance & Counselling, v47 n2 p200-209 2019

Genuine happiness is impossible without authentic concern for and corresponding behaviour towards the well-being of others. Such an incorporation of others into the self refers to a "democratic self" and the related regard for the common good. The author argues that the honesty of professionals who work in or for an educational or vocational setting is vital for the good of the individual and the common good. By introducing "democratic selves", recent advancements in Dialogical Self Theory (DST) point to an inclusion of the common good. However, given the importance of virtues for one's own and the common good, the theory and its applications are in need of integrating virtues *and in particular honesty.*

Also, drop the "privilege" stuff, this is not twitter.

[1] https://eric.ed.gov/?id=EJ1216616

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#285
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be sort of okay with the general idea of proving I'm not a robot, you know what really rubs me the wrong way? It's how blatantly dishonest and disrespectful it is. Let me explain: google decides if you're human based on the data it has on you, such as your browsing profile and whether you're logged in to your Google account. Therefore it punishes you for trying to have privacy or refusing to use google services,…

What I hate more is US-centric of the CAPTCHA. Not only for reCAPTCHA, hCAPTCHA also failed in this regard. I mentioned before, but once I got present with hCAPTCHA asking me to select 電車 (lit. electric train, but since all trains in big cities in Japan are electric train, 'train' in English also usually got translated as 電車). There's a picture of diesel train in the choice. Do I select it? idk. Lately I have been pr…

電車 always trips me up when talking about trains in Japanese. It appears to me that for some Japanese every train (including Diesel powered ones) is 電車 at this point, while others do make the distinction. The Japanese Wikipedia page mentions this shift as well.

The cultural gap is annoying with captcha's, even if you keep your preferred browser language set to English.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#287
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's not forget the subtle dread that comes with getting it wrong. Does that tiny edge of the traffic light that sticks into the next box make that box count as a traffic light as well? Oh no, I get another one - I must have gotten it wrong and now the computers think I'm one of them!

The trick with captcha is to not care if you get it wrong. I found that I could get past the captcha of it just click on the first tiles that pop into my head until Google is sufficiently convinced I'm not a robot. At most it takes me three attempts and even then, I'm not using too much cognitive load.

> The trick with captcha is to not care if you get it wrong.

You have probably never been stuck in a loop where it just wont stop throwing captcha at you.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#288
post #71

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

I'd be sort of okay with the general idea of proving I'm not a robot, you know what really rubs me the wrong way? It's how blatantly dishonest and disrespectful it is. Let me explain: google decides if you're human based on the data it has on you, such as your browsing profile and whether you're logged in to your Google account. Therefore it punishes you for trying to have privacy or refusing to use google services,…

Yeah these fading images are certainly can only ever be used to annoy human.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but some people just wouldn’t need to be online/on smartphones if it wasn’t for the pandemic, and they wouldn’t have any specific issue in their day to day life. But now the pandemic has happened, being online is more important than ever, and there's probably no going back. I find it unacceptable to leave some people behind. I know that pessimism and cynicism about the Internet are fashionable these days. But we're…

> I find it unacceptable to leave some people behind My interest is on what you see as actions related to that. We're a community mostly on the building the web side, bearing at least some responsibility of what "being online" means today. Your describing them as left behind makes me think you see the current web as the way forward, but I don't know if it's a fair assumption on your position. Arguably I see their lac…

Fair points. You're right; the web is at least in part what our community decides to make it. So it's not inevitable that we have to drag others kicking and screaming into the current web that we didn't really design for them in the first place.

Speaking of adaptation layers, my own expertise is in accessibility for blind people. There's some debate in the online blind community about the merits of devices and user interfaces designed specifically for blind people, versus retrofitting a screen reader onto a mainstream GUI. Given the prevalence of proprietary walled gardens, the staggering complexity of even the open web, and the need for blind people to participate in mainstream society, it's inevitable that we have to rely on the latter to some extent. But that doesn't mean that blind people have to live with only the level of accessibility and usability that mainstream platform companies choose to provide, ad least as long as one mainstream platform is open enough to allow for third-party adaptations.

So maybe there's also a need for alternative UIs for people who, for whatever reason, aren't familiar with the conventions of the mainstream Internet, such as email inboxes. It would be important, though, to make sure such attempts at alternative UIs don't come off as condescending (like, say, Microsoft Bob).

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#290
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no virtue in negativity or pessimism if we're oblivous to even the smallest things (boring pictures) that negatively impact us, we hinder ourselves to making the world better. And that's not something we want, everything is shit already. Oh and this whole "Just don't" dissmissal... Check your privilege, man, and develop some damn empathy.

> Oh and this whole "Just don't" dissmissal... Check your privilege, man, and develop some damn empathy. Soft healers make smelly wounds [1]: British Journal of Guidance & Counselling, v47 n2 p200-209 2019 Genuine happiness is impossible without authentic concern for and corresponding behaviour towards the well-being of others. Such an incorporation of others into the self refers to a "democratic self" and the relate…

If you can "JUST don't" (a privilege), it doesn't mean someone else can "JUST don't". You're being an asshole, not "honest".

also you probably meant tumblr, not twitter.

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