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Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

clivethompson.medium.com

91–100 of 375 posts

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#91

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

Something melancholy about them is the loss of the idealism of "User Agent" as a scriptable machine which can act on your behalf on the innocent and collaborative proto-internet.

I also mourn the loss of User Agents. Why can't they just let bots browse?

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#92

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

Additionally, ReCAPTCHA is worse than a metal detector, since in addition to being an inconvenience, it's performing unpaid labor for Google. It's more like a bouncer at the door, who won't let you in unless you grease his palm first. Just filthy corruption, plain and simple.

How is it corruption? The website’s owners consciously choose to use said bouncer who has agreed to accept compensation in the form of making the website’s visitors solve captcha.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#93
Will we ever run out of CAPTCHAs that computer vision can't solve? When reCAPTCHA was started, it used difficult-to-read letters to digitize books, but that's long gone at this point. It seems like Google's been feeding us all pictures of street features to identify for years. Someday adversarial models will catch up and be able to pass these CAPTCHAs (or maybe all CAPTCHAs) right? What then?

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#94

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

And let's not forget the subtle dread that comes with getting it wrong. Does that tiny edge of the traffic light that sticks into the next box make that box count as a traffic light as well? Oh no, I get another one - I must have gotten it wrong and now the computers think I'm one of them!

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand why websites need to use captcha. I do not understand why websites that have user accounts cannot offer the option of 2FA TOTP, or even SMS login to avoid captcha. Hilton.com is a big annoyance.

SMS is expensive.

It's amazing that they still charge for something smaller than an average packet.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#96
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution was all about solving cultural problem of captcha as well as security by that I mean automated bots exploiting and solving captcha en masse. Ofc the service would guarantee you privacy I don't need to keep the video footage of you or the mic footage I would delete it immediately when the captcha task is solved. You would need to trust the service the same like people are trusting logless VPN providers wit…

It's not the security or trust that is even the issue. Even if the footage was never recorded or deleted instantly after. Even if it was 100% anonymous and 100% guaranteed secure, it still feels like some creepy dystopian nightmare. A system like this means we've catastrophically failed with technology. It's too dehumanizing. At this point, burn it all to the ground, we're done.

Then how we should solve captcha problem? Captcha should be easy to do for humans, easy to verify but hard to solve for bots. It should be humane and happy. How to do it?

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#97

I've read the whole article, and I see so many comments agreeing or even adding detail to the post. Am I really in the minority if this kind of thing couldn't even cross my mind or feels like written by someone living in a parallel universe? A few poorly shot street photos are "unbearably depressing"? And there's even a detailed explanation breaking it down into points, each one feeling more alien than the last. They…

I also don't agree with the author during the first half of the article. If anything captcha photos have an overwhelmingly suburban feel, probably because (I assume) they're taken from Google's street view. The six points listed are all the same: they're photos taken from a car. While aesthetically that's dull, monochrome, and ordinary I can't call it depressing without calling every drive to the grocery store equally depressing.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#98

I've read the whole article, and I see so many comments agreeing or even adding detail to the post. Am I really in the minority if this kind of thing couldn't even cross my mind or feels like written by someone living in a parallel universe? A few poorly shot street photos are "unbearably depressing"? And there's even a detailed explanation breaking it down into points, each one feeling more alien than the last. They…

How many times have you gotten locked out by a captcha? I don't mean "try again," I mean the neverending cycle of "try again" that completely prohibits you from going about a particular piece of business. My guess: you are US-informed enough, neurotypical enough, good enough at guessing constraints to fix underdetermined prompts, and use proxies little enough that capchas have never been more than an annoyance for yo…

Did you read the article? Your argument has nothing to do with the point of the article nor OPs comment.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#99

I've read the whole article, and I see so many comments agreeing or even adding detail to the post. Am I really in the minority if this kind of thing couldn't even cross my mind or feels like written by someone living in a parallel universe? A few poorly shot street photos are "unbearably depressing"? And there's even a detailed explanation breaking it down into points, each one feeling more alien than the last. They…

It's for this very reason I'm so happy to see something like this article on HN, and I'm so happy to see your comment too. I think I know exactly where you're coming from -- I was exactly the same way when I was younger. I was 100% extremely logical, and my emotional awareness was... exceedingly underdeveloped. Long story short, I got into different artistic pursuits where I was forced to develop my emotional awarene…

Just because mixedCase does not find captcha pictures to be depressing does not necessarily mean that mixedCase has problems with emotional intelligence. I have no major issues with emotional intelligence as far as I can tell and I also do not find captcha pictures to be depressing. Maybe I would if I looked at them for hours for some reason, but I do not, and certainly the idea of them being "unbearably" depressing strikes me as quite extreme. I understand the author's points about the lack of people, the strange angles and so on and I am sure that if for some reason I had to live in a strangely-angled reality full of roads and gray buildings and devoid of people, that I would find it unpleasant. But I do not have to live in such a reality - I barely even glance at any given captcha, then I click some parts of it and move on.

The way that the author describes the captcha images reminds me of the idea of "liminal space" - a concept that relates to a certain kind of eerie sensation but is perhaps most familiar to people in the form of art that seeks to evoke this sensation and makes normally familiar things like shopping malls and schools instead look eerie. Often simply photographing such places without any people in the pictures does the trick. I do see the eerieness in the captcha pictures but again, for it to really affect me I would have to focus on them for much longer than I actually do. The author, for whatever reason, has become particularly interested in captcha images, but until I read this article at least, I was not.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#100
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes. There's nothing like doing 3 noisy slow fade captchas correctly only to be failed for unknown reasons and asked to do even more. It's like it's wondering how much free work it can get out of users before they get mad and give up.

A robot would never give up.

I bet the robots know exactly how many failures before they need to cycle IPs/cookies/accounts and when the time comes I bet they know how to do it quickly and at low cost.

Humans just have to give up and hope that whatever was behind the captcha wasn't actually important.

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