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Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

clivethompson.medium.com

211–220 of 375 posts

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#211
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be sort of okay with the general idea of proving I'm not a robot, you know what really rubs me the wrong way? It's how blatantly dishonest and disrespectful it is. Let me explain: google decides if you're human based on the data it has on you, such as your browsing profile and whether you're logged in to your Google account. Therefore it punishes you for trying to have privacy or refusing to use google services,…

> - Even falsely claim you failed captchas even if you get them right Do you have a source for this?

I’ve experienced the same thing. I can think of a semi-charitable possible explanation but after this much time I must conclude it’s on purpose.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite is finding errors on their side. I was tasked with finding the parking meters, and being told I was missing one. The "one" was an image of a mailbox, not a parking meter. Selecting the mailbox allowed it to say I was a human

Is a Bicycle a motorcycle? Will I kill one or the other by mis-categorizing it for the AI?

I mean, if we're just going to start saying "you know what I meant", then why use words that have meaning for anything?

Honestly, as a driver, when I see a bicycle, I make sure to provide as much room around them as possible. When I see a motorcycle from behind, I have no idea what the thought processes of the rider will be and just continue on in a straight line and allow them to make a decision. A bicycle in my rearview mirror poses no threat as they cannot keep up. A motorcycle can easily overtake in way ordinary cars cannot (between lanes, etc). They are much more difficult to predict. (not even taking into consideration the tendancy of motorcycle drivers being less risk averse).

So, if you want to teach the AI that a bicycle and a motorcycle are the same thing, then yes, you might inadvertantly lead to an AI making the wrong decision leading to a death. I wouldn't necessarily blame you for picking the wrong image in a captcha, but I'd definitely blame the devs for not sanitizing user input.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#213

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

I hate captchas with a passion, yet I was recently forced to deploy it on website due to direct instructions from the credit card processor. The system was being used to roll through credit cards script-o-matically, and they mandated captchas to be deployed on threat of closing our account if not. So if anyone has better solution so I can eliminate the G and is Wordpress happy, I'm all ears (or eyes reading in this c…

You don’t need a captcha if you’re willing to put some engineering resources at it. Check the IP reputation. Fingerprint the browser, they never bot from mobile devices. It’s always zombie windows boxes. Whitelist all your marketing traffic because that traffic is clean.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#214
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be sort of okay with the general idea of proving I'm not a robot, you know what really rubs me the wrong way? It's how blatantly dishonest and disrespectful it is. Let me explain: google decides if you're human based on the data it has on you, such as your browsing profile and whether you're logged in to your Google account. Therefore it punishes you for trying to have privacy or refusing to use google services,…

> - Even falsely claim you failed captchas even if you get them right Do you have a source for this?

I've had Captcha insist that I have to misidentify a mailbox as a parking meter before it would let me proceed.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#215

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

And let's not forget the subtle dread that comes with getting it wrong. Does that tiny edge of the traffic light that sticks into the next box make that box count as a traffic light as well? Oh no, I get another one - I must have gotten it wrong and now the computers think I'm one of them!

The trick with captcha is to not care if you get it wrong. I found that I could get past the captcha of it just click on the first tiles that pop into my head until Google is sufficiently convinced I'm not a robot. At most it takes me three attempts and even then, I'm not using too much cognitive load.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#216

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

So I'm member of a a religious (yogic) organisation and we have our own little chanting on Saturdays. When Covid broke out this obviously became impossible so we decided to have our meetings on Zoom instead. Now we have one woman in our group with some intellectual disability, a wonderful, sweet woman with the kindest heart in the world. Being 100% computer illiterate, she still decided to buy a tablet so she could f…

> Being 100% computer illiterate

I wonder how much of that was due to the impairment itself, and how much was due to people underestimating her or not being willing to work with her to get her online.

> I could not reasonably answer that question

I can appreciate that it would have been challenging to come up with an explanation on the spot, while trying to talk her through joining the meeting. Having spent several minutes thinking about this from the safe distance of an asynchronous discussion after the fact, the best I can come up with is this:

When you join a Zoom meeting, your tablet makes a call to Zoom over the Internet. But Zoom doesn't know for sure that the call is coming from an actual person trying to join the meeting. Have you ever gotten a phone call from a stranger, only to find out that the call is actually from a computer playing a recording, trying to sell you something? But if you assumed all calls from strangers were like that, you might also miss important calls from real people. It's kind of like that for Zoom as well. There are all sorts of nasty programs out there on the Internet, trying to make calls to Zoom. They might be trying to snoop on people's meetings, bombard people with advertisements, or just overload Zoom. Zoom needs to keep those programs out, so it can focus on serving people like you that are actually attending meetings. Now, when you get a call from a computer, you can tell pretty easily that it's a computer, because so far, computers aren't very good at having a conversation with a person. But Zoom is a computer program, and it's not smart enough to tell whether you're a real person without asking you to do something annoying like clicking all of the tiles with traffic lights.

> I came close to saying "dear Kristine, throw this tablet in the garbage, none of this is going to make you happier"

What actually happened? Did she make it into the meeting? Do you know if she continued to use the tablet for other things? I hope so. I know the Internet can be frustrating, but I think it would have been a mistake to conclude that it wouldn't make her any happier. After all, it has helped us stay connected through the pandemic, right? I hope she got to participate in that.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the questions are still very poorly posed even if you are from the US. Does a corner of a wheel count as a car? Is the square box containing a traffic light a traffic light? What about the horizontal pole on which it is suspended? What about the vertical pole holding up the horizontal pole? If there is one in the distance, does that count? You have to play a game of guessing what other people will guess, an…

With all the legitimate criticism of Captchas, this is really a made up one. It doesn't matter. You can get some stuff wrong and still pass, and you can skip/retry if the picture is not clear too. Captchas aren't a "score 100 percent at this minigame" thing, they're more of a "loosely follow these instructions while I watch your cursor and analyze your results to figure out if you're a human or a selenium instance."

Maybe you can get some stuff wrong and still pass.

But if someone has been stuck for 20 minutes on this game, through 30 different screens of it, and not passed yet, you can surely understand why they may think the reason is they are getting some edge-case stuff "wrong" and the machine is very picky, so they have to figure out the secret rules needed to pass.

I did try once for 20 minutes to see if tenacity would win, until I gave up because it still hadn't let me pass. I'm pretty sure that my error rate was very low, if not zero.

I'm guessing those times when I've been unable to get past a Captcha were due to the IP address I was connecting from, but it's pretty abusive of a site to tell someone it will let them in if they solve a simple test correctly, and then repeatedly show a new version of the test, never letting them in and never telling them no either. Cloudflare and Google have been bad for this.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#220
> Why are these photos so depressing? What is it about their composition that is so enervating?

If the causality was a property of the images, those questions would have definitive answers.

But our emotions are not transmitted to us by inanimate objects or images. They come from within our psyches. There is an element of choice to what we feel. If there wasn’t, we would be zombies, or machines, or vulnerable imbeciles who could be overcome by an enemy combatant who would need no gun, knife or club - just a picture of a traffic light.

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