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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#181

Post by random314 »

mach_architect wrote: post #131
random314 wrote: post #58

Just looking at Suleymans credentials, he has literally zero technical credentials. Why is he leading AI divisions within Google? Because he managed to become Demis Hassabis' lackey at the right time? Looks like a standard issue corporate climber who demands work from his subordinates that he himself cannot deliver.

> he has literally zero technical credentials > Looks like a standard issue corporate climber who demands work from his subordinates that he himself cannot deliver. The people I've seen like this had machine learning PHDs and lots of publications, while some of the most productive had no such pedigree. I'd be careful judging based on "technical credentials".

This is not an engineering organization. Deepmind is a research organization led by PhD Hassabis who is the obvious intellectual force behind the organization. All the pioneers of AI from Hinton to Goodfellow have PhDs in AI with a strong publication record. Core AI research is simply not an area where college dropouts like Suleyman can drive research. He is a non technical "manager" riding Hassabis coattails. If Hassabis can get work done without bullying, who is this dude?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demis_Hassabis

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#182

Post by bowmessage »

Tycho wrote: post #130
Shindi wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who drops out of Oxford unless it’s to start a business? You’d almost think he was an intelligence asset of something. I think you've been smoking too much weed my friend.

If I was the British intelligence services, this is exactly what I’d do. Recruit bright, middle class students from Oxford, fast track their career through the NGO sector (where results don’t matter), build up their public profile with press coverage, then deploy them to the private sector and hope that they will end up inside one of the multinationals that are more powerful and influential than most countries. I mea…

Why make them drop out? Just have them graduate as normal?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#183

Post by ramraj07 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #103
TeMPOraL wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they bad architects though? It's easy to paint bad managers as bad workers (or even bad people ) - but sometimes, they're just bad at managing. In such cases, it's better to shift them into roles they're more suited for than to fire them and hire new people for those roles - existing employees already know the company's procedures and products. Plus, it'll likely be cheaper salary-wise - in our industry, new emp…

Google is generally loathe to fire unless they absolutely have to, so this explanation tracks.

Except if it’s a black female AI ethicist questioning some choices made by your company I suppose.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#184

Post by Volundr »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #173
Volundr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec is common place. What?! I've worked with executives most of my career. Screaming was definitely not common place. I can only recall 2 examples, and neither lasted long or had any business being in a position of power. And what even is "involuntary screaming"? Has the executive just broken their leg or something? If so OK. But if they'…

Have you stopped to think for a sec that some of us like screaming, and in some cultures a lot of screaming is common place. Screaming it not out of control, its using the volume of your voice to command attention. Perhaps the abuse is the thin skin. Perhaps the abuse is the lack of forgiveness. Perhaps the abuse is the failure to recognize we all have flaws.

> Have you stopped to think for a sec that some of us like screaming

I don't care if you "like" screaming. There are lots of things I like to do that aren't appropriate in the workplace. If you want to go to a "scream club" and scream your heart out you do you. In the workplace as a corporate executive act like an adult.

> and in some cultures a lot of screaming is common place

By all means enlighten me as to in what cultures it's common place for your boss to scream at you and not considered dysfunctional?

> Perhaps the abuse is the thin skin.

No.

> Perhaps the abuse is the lack of forgiveness. Perhaps the abuse is the failure to recognize we all have flaws.

People have flaws. People can be forgiven for them. "Forgiveness" doesn't mean all consequences go away. If you can't do your job as a executive properly, I can forgive. I can't let you keep abusing employees.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#185

Post by truetraveller »

marcinzm wrote: post #31
sillysaurusx wrote: post #16

I see a lot of people saying this seems not a big deal, or that his leadership deserved promotion. It’s because this is a second order article. The original, most substantive source that I could find is quite thorough: https://archive.is/wqdkF > "He would ask us to do personal things for him," one of these people said. "He said, 'I need you to write a briefing for me on Russian history and politics.' [...] We had abs…

>We had absolutely no work in Russia. Wouldn't the point of such a high level briefing be because they're tying to get work in Russia but don't already have any? It's rather common for employees to not know the details of the strategic plans of the executives until the execution starts.

Exactly.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#186

Post by r00fus »

renewiltord wrote: post #67
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I've encountered managers refusing to use company-provided communications for company work, it's one of two explanations: (Note these apply specifically to managers communicating with their teams. I'm not including ICs who just prefer to not use company comms) 1) Leadership has developed a reputation for routinely reading people's private communications. Specifically, not just for investigating specific even…

That second anecdote is absurd in its ridiculousness. What a crazy person that guy must have been!

I have worked for one, at a time, also. The feedback loop given the lack of pushback from underlings must really foster a condition where such a person thinks that's the only way to be successful, and could even be rewarded for it when they deliver on projects.

I'm glad I don't work in such an abusive environment with my current employment/manager but things change...

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#187

Post by [deleted] »

truetraveller wrote: post #102
gundmc wrote: post #8

I feel like this story is overblown. He was clearly a bad manager. From what I can gather, he was placed on leave after an investigation and then moved to a policy position where he does not manage anyone. Calling it a promotion is pure spin.

This is today's cancel culture, unfortunately. Dramatize and exaggerate things. And hypocrisy, but that's a separate issue.

[deleted]

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#188

Post by johnboi »

nicoburns wrote: post #44
Tycho wrote: post #27

This guy appears to be a self-styled liberal activist operating in the business world. According to this fawning Business Insider piece (did his PR agent write it?), he has tried his hand at fixing climate change, inequality, health care, AI ethics, and so on. https://www.businessinsider.com/mustafa-suleyman-the-lefty-a... He dropped out of his degree at Oxford and then founded a telephone helpline for Muslim youths.…

Quite a lot of people drop out of Oxford because it's an intense high-pressure environment. It may not have been out of choice, even if he's portraying it that way

This comment managed to blow my mind. Are we really trying to say the cofounder of DEEPMIND is too stupid / incompetent to have graduated from Oxford and came up with a charity as a front for it?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#189

Post by jakelazaroff »

Guthur wrote: post #160
oytis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

Because some of us are getting really tired of these witch hunts. Was he an ahole, possibly. Did Google value his contribution, probably. Did he commit any crime, doubtful. Humans are all deeply flawed and if you were to pick enough sound bites about someone across a long enough period of time you could paint them as monsters. This current climate of holier than thou rhetoric is becoming increasingly poisonous.

It’s a “witch hunt” when someone doesn’t get a promotion? No one’s calling for his arrest. They’re just saying that someone who abused his power to bully people should not be rewarded with more power over people.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#190

Post by AlbertCory »

One of those lawyerly non-denials:

  "A DeepMind representative said, 'Our records do not show settlements based on his behavior.' "
Note that they didn't say there were no settlements; just that they didn't keep a record, or they destroyed them.

In fact, that statement would even allow for a settlement based on something else, where "based on his behavior" is in dispute. Maybe there was a settlement about his speech, and they claim that wasn't "based on his behavior."

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