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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

nzz.ch

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#221

Post by sudosysgen »

ipnon wrote: post #28
ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

You can definitely get in massive trouble in the US and put your job in danger. Your superiors just have to massively disagree, or you might be posting about sensitive topics like Israel or the military.

Both BLM and MAGA are incredibly mainstream movements.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#223

Post by graderjs »

jacksonkmarley wrote: post #79

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point: > In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what hap…

Hold on a second. We can't be so quick to dismiss this juicy tidbit of potential Chinese nefariousness. We must think creatively about how we can utilize this story to further the fake narrative of Chinese evil. This is patriotic and essential, so rather than thinking critically (you counterrevolutionary you) just Thank Gawd, for any solid evidence we have to fortify the China Bogeyman Fake Narrative--that's just great. We can finally establish a casus belli, a fake pretext to hate China on. Hooray! Western democracies FTW! :p ;) xx

edit: Numquam ego cogito ergo sum adversus suffragator - chorum hn

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#224

Post by casualracism »

jollybean wrote: post #208
casualracism wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it’s not just a “cartoon which has Chinese characters”. Stop pushing misinformation in obvious contradiction with available information.

"Again, it’s not just a “cartoon which has Chinese characters”." Where is your evidence? Provide evidence of racism or stop harassing people.

I posted multiple quotes from the very article being discussed as a reply to another misinformation comment from you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28097088 If this very one-sided article says it was racist, it was, or they would have used it as ammunition instead of being as vague as possible.

At this point it is very clear you’re deliberately pushing bs in bad faith. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#225

Post by nova22033 »

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Big Tech squashing our rights

How exactly has big tech squashed your rights?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#226

Post by jkhdigital »

elygre wrote: post #74
ipnon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

In the US, tweeting critically about Israel would probably be the bigger risk. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Salaita_hiring_contro...

You found an incredibly ripe cherry to pluck with this one! Literally anyone with a beef can attempt to derail a hiring decision nowadays. People are getting unhired because someone dug up old Instagram videos where they say the N word while singing rap lyrics as a teenager. It’s absolutely insane, and you cherry picked one example that is not even remotely representative of this phenomenon as a whole.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#227

Post by sudosysgen »

rgoulter wrote: post #54
_Microft wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the „paradox of tolerance“ already? You can read about it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance First paragraph copied for your convenience: „The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to ma…

I think that summary misses out how much Popper argues should be tolerated. e.g. in the quote in the article, Popper writes: > In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.

That's a tactical, not moral, distinction.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#228

Post by Marvin_Martian »

curiousgal wrote: post #86
jacksonkmarley wrote: post #79

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point: > In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what hap…

Thank you! I am glad to see people are actually reading the articles. Last time this was published no one even bothered to note that there was no intervention from China whatsoever. Following the same logic a hotel worker losing their job because an American tourist complained can say that the United States got them fired.. The comments critical of the CCP in this thread prove that confirmation bias is alive and well…

Some comments might be off the mark, but the article itself is completly honest about the fact that they cannot prove that any chinese officials were even involved in this mess.

The underlying criticism is more that the professor (and if you want to extrapolate swiss institutions as a whole) engaged in some "working towards the fuhrer" behaviour. She took very drastic steps (ruining this students career) on the basis of what would be in the interest of the CCP.

And I would argue that this behaviour is very much incentivized by the CCP. Take a look at how censorhip within the country works: The laws are often quite vague, but enforcement is draconian. This leads people and institutions to guess what the government would want and act (self-censor) accordingly.

One of the original journalists published another article two days later that voices this criticism more clearly: https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/china-und-die-hsg-wo-die-angst-re...

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#229

Post by ipnon »

jacquesm wrote: post #210
ipnon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lest ye incur the wrath of dang, HN newbies, accusing others of astroturfing or hidden agendas is against the guidelines.

He didn't. And I resent your portrayal of Daniel he's not vengeful. Which given some of the idiocy he has to deal with quite amazing.

It was meant to be in jest, I'm sorry.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#230

Post by jkhdigital »

casualracism wrote: post #117
jollybean wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you comparing blatantly racist actions with mild, indirect criticism of a government?

What are you even talking about? Posting racist cartoon depicting stereotypes about Chinese is exactly what the Chinese studies PhD student did, so this is an exact parallel.

Do you have a copy of the cartoon? The article intimated that it had possibly exaggerated Asiatic features. It did not indicate that the cartoon’s actual intent was to lampoon an entire race, which is what would traditionally qualify as racism (although I know the goalposts have been moved quite a bit).
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