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The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

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Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#301
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does iCloud automatically upload iMessage attachments?

Doesn't need to, the detection is client side at first.

No, like many others commenting on the issue, you seem to only have a vague idea of how it works. Only photos being uploaded to iCloud are being scanned for CSAM.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airport baggage drug dogs must obviously have far fewer false positives than that. So alerting on everything can't be the state of the art.

https://reason.com/2021/05/13/the-police-dog-who-cried-drugs... > Similar patterns abound nationwide, suggesting that Karma's career was not unusual. Lex, a drug detection dog in Illinois, alerted for narcotics 93 percent of the time during roadside sniffs, but was wrong in more than 40 percent of cases. Sella, a drug detection dog in Florida, gave false alerts 53 percent of the time. Bono, a drug detection dog in Vi…

I've had my bag sniffed at airports at least 50 times, and they've never stopped me. So there must be something else going on as well

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean liberal values. The paradox of the left includes censorship, gun control, etc..

FYI Illiberal values aka non-liberal values (clarifying because the I is hard to read) use the word liberal in the traditional sense. Liberal values are liberty/freedom, consent of the governed, and equality before the law. All other liberal values build off of these three as a base. This implies that Non-liberal (or illiberal) values are the opposition of liberal values through censorship, gun control, etc like you…

Karl Marx quote on the right to keep and bear arms only applies to the proletariat. If you are a programmer and own the means of production (your laptop), you are not proletariat. All socialist and communist countries have strict gun control.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI Illiberal values aka non-liberal values (clarifying because the I is hard to read) use the word liberal in the traditional sense. Liberal values are liberty/freedom, consent of the governed, and equality before the law. All other liberal values build off of these three as a base. This implies that Non-liberal (or illiberal) values are the opposition of liberal values through censorship, gun control, etc like you…

Karl Marx quote on the right to keep and bear arms only applies to the proletariat. If you are a programmer and own the means of production (your laptop), you are not proletariat. All socialist and communist countries have strict gun control.

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#305
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://reason.com/2021/05/13/the-police-dog-who-cried-drugs... > Similar patterns abound nationwide, suggesting that Karma's career was not unusual. Lex, a drug detection dog in Illinois, alerted for narcotics 93 percent of the time during roadside sniffs, but was wrong in more than 40 percent of cases. Sella, a drug detection dog in Florida, gave false alerts 53 percent of the time. Bono, a drug detection dog in Vi…

I've had my bag sniffed at airports at least 50 times, and they've never stopped me. So there must be something else going on as well

The handler didn't think you looked untrustworthy and didn't hint for the dog to bark.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like the dogs which conveniently bark at police's secret hand sign This isn't necessary; the state of the art is for drug dogs to alert 100% of the time. They're graded on whether they ever miss drugs. It's easy to never miss.

Dogs are used to protect police from accusations of racism and profiling.

Which is odd as dogs can be just as racist as their handlers want.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same checking when you synced things to iCloud. As has been repeated over and over again, this check happens for iCloud Photos. It's not running arbitrarily. Who said it's running "arbitrarily"? Who said it's not about iCloud Photos? > Your photos were compared before and they're being compared now... if you're using iCloud Photos. They weren't always compared, they started being compared a few years ago, and t…

>Both are bad, and not the responsibility of a company selling phones Apple is not just a hardware company and there is no obligation for them to host offending contents on their servers - just as Dropbox, Google, and so on would maintain with theirs. >As for your suggestions to just "stop using iCloud Photos", how about we get to enjoy the features we bought our devices for, without stuff we didn't ask for and don't…

>It's odd to say that a business shouldn't be allowed to police what's on their platform, given we're on a forum explicitly enabling entrepreneurs.

It's odd to say that a business should be allowed to police private user content, given we're on a forum with the name "Hacker" on it, built by ex-hackers, and with part of its member's interests heritage not in and "enabling enterpreneurs" but in hacking (in the MIT sense of yore).

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#308
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't need to, the detection is client side at first.

No, like many others commenting on the issue, you seem to only have a vague idea of how it works. Only photos being uploaded to iCloud are being scanned for CSAM.

And you have an overly optimistic idea that they will not enable this feature more broadly. You really want to trust them, when this incident shows that they do not intend to be fully forthright with such changes?

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Both are bad, and not the responsibility of a company selling phones Apple is not just a hardware company and there is no obligation for them to host offending contents on their servers - just as Dropbox, Google, and so on would maintain with theirs. >As for your suggestions to just "stop using iCloud Photos", how about we get to enjoy the features we bought our devices for, without stuff we didn't ask for and don't…

In this case, they're explicitly required by law to report this material if it shows up on their servers.

Well, Jim Crow legislation was also a thing once.

Re: The Problem with Perceptual Hashes

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible to 'hide' photos from the reel in the photos app. Many people are unaware of that feature so an attacker could hide as many photos they want in your iCloud.

Assmuning they have access

With the number of security flaws that exist these days we should assume someone always has access that is not intended.
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