Anybody else feel the chilling effect, wanting to sign this but unsure of future implications of doing so?
An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
191–200 of 451 posts
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
> especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. Not surprising at all. In Russia, _every_ measure to limit internet freedom was introduced under the pretence of fighting child pornography and extremism. Then, of course, it was used to block the websites of political opponents.
No need to look at russia only, what about Germany, one of those "bastions of free speech". Also, wasn't the rational for the crypto ban the same? Either terrorism or Child Porn? If you support E2E you're effectively supporting child porn? https://gigaom.com/2009/06/16/germany-to-vote-on-block-list-...
Does anyone really think of Germany as "bastion of free speech"?
It is one of few european countries that still have (actively used) anti-blasphemy laws[1] and laws against insulting foreign leaders[2].
[1] https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2016/02/27/in-rare-move-...
[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/ge...
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#193Honestly I'm glad to see a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously, especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. It can be hard to stand on the side that doesn't immediately appear to be correct. We have already lost so many freedoms for 'national security' and other such blanket terminology. Just be warned, there will be those that unfairly try to cast this as h…
> 1. Vote with your feet - Put your money in the pockets of the people aligned to your values.
The sad reality right now is that we're actively suggesting that peoples stop buying smart phones, and I think that would mean that any argument will fall on deaf ears. Yes, projects like the PinePhone exists, but they aren't ready for the general public.
As much as I agree with your comment, the sad reality is that I have to pick between Apple and Google. Of those two companies I still trust Apple significantly more.
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#194Honestly I'm glad to see a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously, especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. It can be hard to stand on the side that doesn't immediately appear to be correct. We have already lost so many freedoms for 'national security' and other such blanket terminology. Just be warned, there will be those that unfairly try to cast this as h…
non-insignificant -> significant
I used a double negative on purpose there :)
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#195Honestly I'm glad to see a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously, especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. It can be hard to stand on the side that doesn't immediately appear to be correct. We have already lost so many freedoms for 'national security' and other such blanket terminology. Just be warned, there will be those that unfairly try to cast this as h…
> a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously We're all here to make ourselves feel good saying we Took A Stand. In reality, four weeks from now, do you think anybody will still be talking about it? I made this same mistake. I was pretty convinced that people were taking Copilot seriously, and that there was possibly going to be ramifications for Microsoft. I wasn't particularly looking forward t…
> I was pretty convinced that people were taking Copilot seriously
I think people used Copilot and realised it was a bit of a nothing burger.
> find a way to combat the real threat: life goes on.
That's the curse of the news cycle. But actions that do live on are monetary ones. When Apple miss sales targets, perhaps they will take note.
> Your three bullet points are wonderful, and I agree entirely with them. And it won't change a damn thing.
I think the last one is the most important, if each of us here can multiply the awareness of the problem, we can start to make real difference. Tech people have a massive influence over what devices ordinary people buy, after all, who will they go to for tech advice?
> I'm not sure what to do about it.
It's a tough problem, but what I do know is that doing nothing will 100% change nothing.
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#196So, if I understand correctly, the NCMEC provides a bunch of hashes of CSAM for Apple to match. This way Apple doesn’t get exposed to the content of images themselves? Then Apple will provide a user’s details plus the IDs of matching content. This identifies the direction of travel for any CSAM content? So, now NCMEC and any local NCMEC can provide new hashes and identify – possibly even historically – the epicentre…
NCMEC's database already contains non-CSAM. What you suggest is not theoretical, it's reality today. I really think people are missing this point. NCMEC's database is not an infallible, audited and trustworthy source of despicable imagery. It's a mess contributed to by thousands of companies, individuals and police. It's also so intertwined with the FBI that I don't think it's truly correct to call NCMEC independent,…
> NCMEC's database already contains non-CSAM.
How do you know?
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#197Honestly I'm glad to see a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously, especially when the goal Apple announces appears to be for the greater good. It can be hard to stand on the side that doesn't immediately appear to be correct. We have already lost so many freedoms for 'national security' and other such blanket terminology. Just be warned, there will be those that unfairly try to cast this as h…
> 1. Vote with your feet - Put your money in the pockets of the people aligned to your values.
As much as I dislike this invasion of privacy, I still trust Apple's products, ecosystem & stewardship over the alternatives (for use by whole family).
Although this is the first time in recent memory where not having a viable alternative to consider is irksome as I don't see where the negative push back will come from to prevent further user hostile invasions like this - can only hope it ends here and it's not the start of a slippery slope towards govt surveillance.
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am currently planning the migration away from the Apple ecosystem Me too. I told my wife today that I'll be looking at a feature phone as I'm not sure I can be bothered with jumping through all the hoops required to de-Google an Android phone. I remember a time before mobile phones, I was just fine without one - smartphones aren't that good, just convenient.
Are you in North America? Which feature phone would you suggest? The Nokia 3310 was likely the only phone I was considering, but it’s ancient and 3G and doesn’t seem very future proof.
Nokia 8110 4G
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can’t speak for everybody of course, but I am currently planning the migration away from the Apple ecosystem and I’m heavily invested (watch, phone, MacBook, Mac Pro, Apple TV). I’ve also been recommending to friends and family to move to droids with microG. The largest concern I have for them is that they’re stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. Most people aren’t going to run a droid without google, or Lin…
> I am currently planning the migration away from the Apple ecosystem Me too. I told my wife today that I'll be looking at a feature phone as I'm not sure I can be bothered with jumping through all the hoops required to de-Google an Android phone. I remember a time before mobile phones, I was just fine without one - smartphones aren't that good, just convenient.
I made the switch a couple months ago and its harder than you think. There is a lot of convenience you take for granted in the smartphone age.
Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the point is that yes, they have always had the power to do these things - but they haven't thus far. We rely on entities with power (companies, governments, people) to exercise restraint in how they exercise it. Those that DO exercise restraint gain trust since exercising restraint demonstrates an understanding of the consequences of not doing so. What the Apple move is doing is showing that they are willing…
Yeah, but they are already doing this for pointless things. They already use facial recognition on all the photos on your phone. That’s what I don’t understand. The only new thing is what they are looking for and their willingness to alert the authorities. The slippery slope argument that this will eventually be used by China to arrest journalists is scare tactics. We have zero evidence that Apple would allow such a…
Apple has caved to china many many times, a quick googling of it will give you a list.
The difference between the "old" content scanning and the new is indeed that they are now willing to "use" the results of that. Facial recognition was client-side only (or so they said), the results of which never left your phone.
Now they're doing content scanning and sending it to themselves as well as others.
In parallel Apple is starting up a growing advertising business, hiring aggressively and expecting that to be a big part of their future revenue. If they're now "allowed" (by its users) to do content scanning _and_ sharing the results, why wouldn't they use those results for themselves to target you with ads?