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Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

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Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#221

Post by frosted-flakes »

gambiting wrote: post #183
carcostthrow wrote: post #85

>And everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now. [...] There’s no excuse not to. Isn't there? Right now for me to own a Ford Mach E, a Tesla Model 3 or a RAV4 Prime is $3400 to $3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, $1400 a year for liability only. My SUV right now costs $1100 a year to insure comprehensive, but even a 2021 Acura NSX or Jaguar F-Pace is only $1400 for the same level of insurance t…

>>$3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, Bit of an aside - how is American insurance so stupidly expensive. Here in UK I have a brand new Volvo XC60 PHEV, £60k, 400bhp car, in one of the highest insurance groups(like group 45 out of 50), I'm 30 years old and my fully comprehensive insurance is £400 a year. That's including 20 million liability limit, legal cover, courtesy vehicle, key cover.....etc etc. Yeah whe…

Americans drive a lot more than Europeans, that's probably why. For comparison, I'm in Canada in my mid-20s and only pay CAD$700 per year, same as you (clean record).

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#222

Post by the_biot »

gambiting wrote: post #186
the_biot wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting the initial layout -- that's a car starting at $70000. Who the hell pays that for a car, when half that gets you a car just as nice but running on gasoline? I haven't bought a new car in ages, but my limit was, and remains, €30k. As long as electric cars cost double what comparable fossil fuel cars cost, with half the range, I don't see any electric revolution happening.

>>Who the hell pays that for a car, when half that gets you a car just as nice but running on gasoline? Does it? What example do you have in mind? Because the only one I can think of is perhaps the E-Tron compared to the Audi Q5, and I'd argue that to reach the "half" mark you'd get a Q5 that has barely any options fitted in, while the E-Tron will come packed with tech. And then yes, there is the Tesla Model S which…

The example I had in mind was the Volvo XC40. Gasoline model starts at €30k, electric model at €59K. More often than not you pay a huge premium for electric cars. I think the cheapest right now is the Nissan Leaf, but that's still a tiny car for a lot of money.

I just don't think electric cars make financial sense at all right now. All those car manufacturers saying they won't be making ICE cars within < 5 years anymore must know something I don't, but I don't see who's going to be paying that premium in the low/middle end.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#223

Post by frosted-flakes »

adrianN wrote: post #163
Hamuko wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil changes are pretty much the least costly part of my car's maintenance. Brakes, suspension and tyres cost far more and I can't imagine that heavy EVs are any better on any of those.

Regenerative braking means that your regular brakes are used much less.

No less than with a manual transmission car. I went 5 years before replacing the pads on my last car, with 150k km driven—not because they were worn, but because they were falling apart.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#224

Post by gambiting »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #221
gambiting wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>$3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, Bit of an aside - how is American insurance so stupidly expensive. Here in UK I have a brand new Volvo XC60 PHEV, £60k, 400bhp car, in one of the highest insurance groups(like group 45 out of 50), I'm 30 years old and my fully comprehensive insurance is £400 a year. That's including 20 million liability limit, legal cover, courtesy vehicle, key cover.....etc etc. Yeah whe…

Americans drive a lot more than Europeans, that's probably why. For comparison, I'm in Canada in my mid-20s and only pay CAD$700 per year, same as you (clean record).

You have to specify how many miles per year you're going to drive - that £400 a year insurance is declared for 10k miles. How many more do Americans drive? 20k? 30k? Aren't those very silly numbers quickly? I thought even in America people drive no more than 20-30 miles a day on average, no?

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#225

Post by gambiting »

withinboredom wrote: post #198
gambiting wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>$3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, Bit of an aside - how is American insurance so stupidly expensive. Here in UK I have a brand new Volvo XC60 PHEV, £60k, 400bhp car, in one of the highest insurance groups(like group 45 out of 50), I'm 30 years old and my fully comprehensive insurance is £400 a year. That's including 20 million liability limit, legal cover, courtesy vehicle, key cover.....etc etc. Yeah whe…

It cost me a simple written exam (free) and a driving test (free) and then about $25USD for the actual license when I was 16. How much does it cost in the UK? If the barrier to drive is low, you end up with people driving around that got a 70% on the written test (lowest passing score) and a 70% on the driving test driving around doing stupid things. It drives up insurance considerably.

Uhm, in the UK you can only pay for the test if you want, no actual training is strictly required. So....like £99 or there about?

But of course majority of people pay for training because they want to learn somewhere, and not everyone has parents willing to risk the family car. Surely even in US people pay for training and there's more to the cost than just the $25 test fee?

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#226

Post by gambiting »

_ph_ wrote: post #215
PhantomGremlin wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's including 20 million liability limit This is the most noticeable difference between US and UK. Cars here generally have perhaps $300,000 liability, perhaps $500,000. I have $1,000,000 but larger number is covered by an additional "umbrella" policy that includes liability for multiple cars and also my house. I imagine there are much greater limits for the likes of Bill Gates. But not commonly for the ordinary 9…

Here in Germany, liability limits are usually much higher. 100 million isn't unheard of. The reason certainly is partly advertising, but also because some freak accidents have caused these amounts of costs. A few millions are not uncommon for bad accidents where for example semis with delicate load are involved. The most severe damage caused so far in a single car accident in Germany is about 30 Million €: https://en…

The minimum required from any insurance in the EU is €5M in 3rd party liability, no vehicle insurance can offer less. The ones offering 20/50/100M are doing it mostly for advertising, there's no appreciable difference in cost.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#227

Post by saiya-jin »

adrianN wrote: post #162
yummybear wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah in my country a new electric car is about 2x years salary. We’d love to switch but that’s a lot of money.

Are new ICE cars affordable? EV don't cost 4x more than ICEs, do they?

Can easily be, if you compare comparable. I buy BMWs for cca 25% of the price of new (that means 6-7 years old and up to 100k km). Last one lasted 11 years and still counting. Maintenance costs are almost 0, apart from mandatory stuff (oil, brakes & pads, wheels every +-5 years).

Hell will freeze sooner than we will be buying a new car - its just such a stupid waste of money, when the price drops so rapidly and you still get 95% of the new car. ICE cars, especially diesels, just age so well compared to electric ones. I know we will be buying our next car as used ICE, for next maybe 10 years. And so do people around us, in richest country in Europe - Switzerland.

Electric car on level to say well equipped BMW 5 wagon series is what... Tesla model S? Not really, BMW has much higher quality of literally everything that matters in car while sporting much bigger trunk (necessity with kids and active lifestyle).

One should not ignore the price point - most of the world simply can't afford buying electric cars. Its great that western democracies will lead this transition, but when considering whole human population this is a tiny sliver at the moment.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#228

Post by aakour »

lordnacho wrote: post #209
aakour wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the numbers from the Finnish state research centre VTT ( http://lipasto.vtt.fi/yksikkopaastot/tavaraliikennee/vesilii... )

Looks like a useful table, but unless I've missed it you need to know how many people/cars are on each ship?

My understanding is that these numbers (try to) account for actual real world usage rates. Actual emissions will of course depend on a whole lot of things, including the things you mentioned, prevailing winds, etc. Same for estimating grid emissions for charging the car of course - the exact mix of sources is always in flux.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#229

Post by perl4ever »

gambiting wrote: post #183
carcostthrow wrote: post #85

>And everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now. [...] There’s no excuse not to. Isn't there? Right now for me to own a Ford Mach E, a Tesla Model 3 or a RAV4 Prime is $3400 to $3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, $1400 a year for liability only. My SUV right now costs $1100 a year to insure comprehensive, but even a 2021 Acura NSX or Jaguar F-Pace is only $1400 for the same level of insurance t…

>>$3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, Bit of an aside - how is American insurance so stupidly expensive. Here in UK I have a brand new Volvo XC60 PHEV, £60k, 400bhp car, in one of the highest insurance groups(like group 45 out of 50), I'm 30 years old and my fully comprehensive insurance is £400 a year. That's including 20 million liability limit, legal cover, courtesy vehicle, key cover.....etc etc. Yeah whe…

>how is American insurance so stupidly expensive

It varies; you can't make a categorical statement like that based on random stuff you read on the Internet.

My insurance is the equivalent of £430 and I have nearly the maximum liability coverage and comprehensive on a current year model car.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#230

Post by gambiting »

perl4ever wrote: post #229
gambiting wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>$3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, Bit of an aside - how is American insurance so stupidly expensive. Here in UK I have a brand new Volvo XC60 PHEV, £60k, 400bhp car, in one of the highest insurance groups(like group 45 out of 50), I'm 30 years old and my fully comprehensive insurance is £400 a year. That's including 20 million liability limit, legal cover, courtesy vehicle, key cover.....etc etc. Yeah whe…

>how is American insurance so stupidly expensive It varies; you can't make a categorical statement like that based on random stuff you read on the Internet. My insurance is the equivalent of £430 and I have nearly the maximum liability coverage and comprehensive on a current year model car.

Thank you - yeah that confirms what I suspected - that at least for some people the insurance isn't $3000 a year.
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