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In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

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Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#21

Post by aoetalks »

modeless wrote: post #13

I don't understand the claim that this system improves their ability to detect anything. If it's really true that the system only works on data uploaded to icloud then apple could have easily just done all the scanning in the cloud, because icloud is not end-to-end encrypted. In that case, all this feature does is move the computational cost of scanning from Apple's datacenters to Apple's users, saving Apple money an…

I must have the same misunderstanding. I don’t know why this has to be device side for iCloud photos..

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#22

Post by gowld »

fitblipper wrote: post #8

To me it is clear they are bowing to government pressure to add this feature. I cannot imagine any other reason they would go from drawing so much attention to privacy of their platform in their communication and general PR around the launch of the privacy labels in the app store to then make this change which is a clear violation of their user's privacy.

A lot of people not in government are also fiercely opposed to raping children and are willing to compromise, and understand that Apple can already do whatever they want to your phone, so this specific thing isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back.

All the "what if Apple turns evil one day" applies equally well to iOS without this feature.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#23

Post by pseudalopex »

modeless wrote: post #13

I don't understand the claim that this system improves their ability to detect anything. If it's really true that the system only works on data uploaded to icloud then apple could have easily just done all the scanning in the cloud, because icloud is not end-to-end encrypted. In that case, all this feature does is move the computational cost of scanning from Apple's datacenters to Apple's users, saving Apple money an…

Photos are encrypted in Apple's technical summary.[1]

[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#24

Post by gowld »

serf wrote: post #20
gowld wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this system, where Apple sees far less photos, worse? You can't audit anything Apple does on their servers.

>How is this system, where Apple sees far less photos, worse? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_collision option three : don't allow Apple to judge user data at all .

That's non-responsive to the topic of the thread.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#25

Post by almostdigital »

gowld wrote: post #16
almostdigital wrote: post #10

A system on my phone where it has a list of bad files and a threshold on how many of those files are allowed. If the threshold is reached Apple can read them. Both the bad files list and threshold is controlled by Apple and is explicitly designed to be un-auditable... Honestly I would have been fine with Apple scanning my all photos after they are uploaded to iCloud but this is deeply disturbing

How is this system, where Apple sees far less photos, worse? You can't audit anything Apple does on their servers.

It's disturbing because of how effective it could be.

It's at OS level, anything you have on your phone can be scanned. Even if an app tries to circumvent it by keeping files encrypted at rest it can scan them in-memory. And since it's all done client-side you'd never know it was happening until it found a match and sent it to Apple.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#26

Post by akamaka »

As a thought experiment, why not allow us to disable the scanning feature in our iPhone settings?

The entire premise of this system is that the targeted users are ignorant of its existence. If we can be so sure they don't know it exists, then surely having an option to disable it would cause no difference in outcome.

If the people in favor of this system don't like the idea of making it optional, perhaps that shows that the premise behind it is flawed.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#27

Post by dylan604 »

hemloc_io wrote: post #14
tannerwj wrote: post #3

"the screeching voices of the minority" is how they refer to those who value privacy...

That's entire memo sounds completely tone deaf and delusional. It's shocking to me that they don't even acklowege the critisms and fully ignore them. It would be one thing if they said that the potential implications are worth it, but they don't even acklowege them.

Why is it shocking at this point? It's Apple and Apple will be Apple. Leopard can't change its spots.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#28

Post by adrr »

How long till China asks Apple to scan iPhones of Chinese citizens for pro-democracy files and images? Apple can no longer claim it isn’t possible.

How long till Apple gets a secret warrant from the FISA courts to scan for a certain file on all US iPhones? Apple can’t claim it isn’t possible.

It could be happening now. We wouldn’t know because all we have is a list of hashes.

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