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Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

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Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#41

Post by zepto »

abawany wrote: post #37
whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then apple will lose market share and correct their ways. Conversely, what I've seen does put this top of list as a parent. Will notify me if my child is sending nudes. Will notify me if someone is sending porn to my child. Will notify police if known child porn is on the device. When folks talk about competition - part of this MUST include the USERS preferences (not as currently done the focus of what I see as large…

I don't think they will ever be able to walk this back. The governments that twisted Apple's arm to get this look-see into everyone's devices will roast them in the court of public opinion (or threaten to, which will be enough). IMO, this will just open up more and more - it will never go back to being what iDevice owners have now.

> The governments that twisted Apple's arm to get this look-see into everyone's devices will roast them in the court of public opinion

Nothing about this technology gives governments a ‘look see’ into everyone’s devices.

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#42

Post by [deleted] »

cblconfederate wrote: post #15

Apple will release this in their desktop pcs. The major consequence of this is that, a year down the line, microsoft will also be compelled/forced to join this "coalition of the good". After all, they already scan all your files for viruses, it would be a shame if they didn't scan for anything that is deemed incriminating and also call the cops on you. Of course, the children are being used as a trojan horse again. W…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#43

Post by twobitshifter »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #30

This system is likely closely related to full encrypted E2E iCloud backups: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...

Were iCloud photos already scanned CSAM? In the on-device system, if you're not using iCloud are the photos scanned?

If that's true, as an iCloud user you are exactly as likely to be charged with a crime based on your photos as you were before, but you now get E2E encryption.

Obviously I'd prefer E2E without any scanning. If I wanted to upload a pirated mp3 to icloud, I wouldn't want the RIAA knocking on my door. However, given that scanning was already in place, is this a step forward?

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#44

Post by ribosometronome »

TrevorJ wrote: post #24
beebmam wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has been doing this for years. Not with this new tech, but with older methods.

I'm skeptical of the claim that MS has been A: scanning files on local windows machines and B: forwarding anything concerning to law enforcement. That's a fairly extraordinary claim, and I would like to see the evidence.

Microsoft hasn't been scanning files on local machines but Microsoft has been doing essentially the same thing Apple has been for years -- they pioneered it with PhotoDNA back in 2009. It's been in use with OneDrive since back when it was called SkyDrive (https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/unfortunate-truths-about-child...). Apple's implementation is scanning images 1) stored on iCloud or 2) in Messages if parents turn it on.

The first seems pretty arbitrary -- why is it worse to scan files you're sharing with the cloud locally than in the cloud (except potential performance/battery impact, but that seems moot).

If Apple brings this feature to the desktop, it seems likely they'd be using it the same way: files stored in their cloud.

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#45

Post by Kaytaro »

throwayws wrote: post #31

Planting false evidence is getting a new twist here. The attacker doesn't even have to make a report! The victim's computer does it for him. Disk encryption malware may have new successor. Effective and scalable extortion as a service.

This is a great point. You don't even need to unlock an iPhone to take a picture. So in theory anyone with access to your phone for a few seconds could incriminate you with little effort.

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#46

Post by zepto »

dcolkitt wrote: post #36
echelon wrote: post #3

Or inversely, the FBI/CIA/CCP went to Apple and said "it'd be a shame it turned out you were a monopoly". Apple caved to pressure and had to implement this. Whatever the angle, this isn't about protecting kids whatsoever. It's about power.

Apple's a $2 trillion company. If not even they have enough legal firepower to stand up to the three letter agencies, what possible chance does any other private citizen have. This should be a wake-up call. It's time to start dismantling massive chunks of the intelligence community. It no longer works for the citizenry that's supposedly their bosses. (If it ever did.) It's become a power blackhole unto itself. Even e…

Most people want the TLAs to be going after child abusers and pedophiles. Good luck using this as your argument for dismantling them.

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#47

Post by u10 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #15

Apple will release this in their desktop pcs. The major consequence of this is that, a year down the line, microsoft will also be compelled/forced to join this "coalition of the good". After all, they already scan all your files for viruses, it would be a shame if they didn't scan for anything that is deemed incriminating and also call the cops on you. Of course, the children are being used as a trojan horse again. W…

> possessing CP to automatically considering them a child molester, yet someone posessing an action movie is not considered a murderer

That's specious reasoning. Someone who posesses an action movie likes action movies, while someone who posesses child porn likes child porn. One is ok, the other is pretty vile and illegal for a reason.

I don't agree with Apple on this but let's be clear on what is and what isn't

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#48

Post by ribosometronome »

voidnullnil wrote: post #34
ribosometronome wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that most of the internet? I would be surprised if, for example, you didn't get reported by Hackernews if you started making criminal threats or sharing CSAM on here. From the legal tab: >3. SHARING AND DISCLOSURE OF PERSONAL INFORMATION >In certain circumstances we may share your Personal Information with third parties without further notice to you, unless required by the law, as set forth below: ... >Legal Re…

>Isn't that most of the internet? No, bad analogy.

Insightful reply, thanks.

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#49

Post by mike3498234 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #15

Apple will release this in their desktop pcs. The major consequence of this is that, a year down the line, microsoft will also be compelled/forced to join this "coalition of the good". After all, they already scan all your files for viruses, it would be a shame if they didn't scan for anything that is deemed incriminating and also call the cops on you. Of course, the children are being used as a trojan horse again. W…

> We don't even mention the giant logical leap from finding someone possessing CP to automatically considering them a child molester, yet someone posessing an action movie is not considered a murderer.

Are you suggesting it's OK to possess CP as long as you're not a molester? What a fucking idiot.

Re: Apple’s new abuse prevention system: an antritust/competition point of view

#50

Post by hughrr »

mike3498234 wrote: post #49
cblconfederate wrote: post #15

Apple will release this in their desktop pcs. The major consequence of this is that, a year down the line, microsoft will also be compelled/forced to join this "coalition of the good". After all, they already scan all your files for viruses, it would be a shame if they didn't scan for anything that is deemed incriminating and also call the cops on you. Of course, the children are being used as a trojan horse again. W…

> We don't even mention the giant logical leap from finding someone possessing CP to automatically considering them a child molester, yet someone posessing an action movie is not considered a murderer. Are you suggesting it's OK to possess CP as long as you're not a molester? What a fucking idiot.

That's a stupid assumption to make based on that. If someone emails or messages you a picture then you're in possession of it if you chose to be or not.
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