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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#721

Post by Grustaf »

disiplus wrote: post #217
jsjohnst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have direct knowledge of examples of where individuals were arrested and convicted of sharing CP online and they were identified because a previous employer I worked for used PhotoDNA analysis on all user uploaded images. So yeah, this type of thing can catch bad people. I’m still not convinced Apple doing this is a good thing, especially on private media content without a warrant, even though the technology can he…

now im afraid, i have two young children < 5 years old. i have occasionally took pictures of them naked with some bumps on the skin or mosquito bite and sent them to my wife over whatsapp to look at and decide do we need to send them to doctor, do i have to fear now that i will be marked as distributing CP.

That is not how Apple's feature works, there is no way for it to flag those images.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#722

Post by arvinsim »

dijit wrote: post #614
kop316 wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One option is getting a Phone that has an unlocked bootloader so one can load their own ROM without Goople Play Services. I have a Pixel 3a with LineageOS, no Google Play. I'm pretty happy with it. While the Pinephone isn't perfect yet, I would argue it will be able to replace Android/iOS in a few months.

> so one can load their own ROM without Goople Play Services Yeah this is the mobile phone equivalent of growing your own vegetables. I get it, I'm a techy, but until the day is here where rooted phones aren't treated like a special case: for most people if they buy a droid then it's actually significantly worse for their personal privacy than an Apple device. I don't want that to be the case, but until the pine phon…

So you are giving up and essentially handing over Apple your rights?

It's no surprise why we got to this point.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#723

Post by [deleted] »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

[deleted]

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#724

Post by arvinsim »

emptysongglass wrote: post #575
snarf21 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, so what's the solution? What are you doing to fix it? Do you roll your own silicon? Do you grow your own food (we have no idea what someone could be putting in it)? Are you completely off-grid? Or are you as completely dependent on society writ large as everyone else? Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful or thought provoking. Offer an alternative if it is a bad one (lo…

Dumping Facebook and its products as I and others have done is one strong step forward but people can't even manage this. It's deeply disappointing. Techno bears its seeds in rebellion but everybody throwing techno parties is coordinating on what is essentially an Orwellian state. Punks too, they're cozied up to this framework of oppression and can't see it for what it is. I think people have a hard time seeing the e…

Tech(or more specifically, cloud technology and social media) is the modern "opium of the masses".

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#725

Post by quenix »

marderfarker2 wrote: post #386
modernerd wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you recommend instead?

Current generation of desktop/laptop processors are plenty powerful. I’m unconvinced they cannot fulfil today’s computing needs.

As an M1 owner, M1 just does it better for mobile computing purposes. There is no denying this.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#726

Post by WhyNotHugo »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

> So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud?

No, it'll be done on-device.

> How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif

Nothing. Given that it's only done on their closed-source messaging platform though, nothing is preventing them from reading your messages already.

But yes, it could potentially be used to detect images that the current political party doesn't like.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#727

Post by dijit »

arvinsim wrote: post #722
dijit wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so one can load their own ROM without Goople Play Services Yeah this is the mobile phone equivalent of growing your own vegetables. I get it, I'm a techy, but until the day is here where rooted phones aren't treated like a special case: for most people if they buy a droid then it's actually significantly worse for their personal privacy than an Apple device. I don't want that to be the case, but until the pine phon…

So you are giving up and essentially handing over Apple your rights? It's no surprise why we got to this point.

Who are you talking to? The literal millions of people who see no choice other than Android?

Because that's who I'm speaking for.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#728

Post by fsflover »

acdha wrote: post #665
fsflover wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much of the code running on your data do you personally inspect? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28072201

So you've reversed your earlier position and now admit that it is normal and reasonable for most people to delegate this work? You can call it “the community” but it's still delegation.

Not sure which earlier position you mean. I never suggested that everyone must do/understand everything.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#729

Post by OJFord »

meowface wrote: post #715
OJFord wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are examples (from the OP, but in reply tweets) in the submission.

Unless I'm missing something, those are just theoretical examples of how one could potentially deliberately try to find hash collisions, using a different, simpler perceptual hash function: https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/14230842449522892... So, it's theoretical, it's a different algorithm, and it's a case where someone is specifically trying to find collisions via machine learning. (Perhaps by "reversing…

You're not missing something, but you're not likely to get real examples because as I understand it the algorithm and database are private, the posters above are just guardedly commenting with (claimed) insider knowledge, they're not likely to want to leak examples (and not just that it's private, but with the supposed contents.. Would you really want to be the one saying 'but it isn't, look'? Would you trust someone who did, and follow such a link to see for yourself?)

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#730

Post by vincnetas »

Another real case is how they will handle photos of my own naked kids, of which i have plenty of photos, because it's quite natural for my kids to be running around and playing naked. And i want to capture the moments, not the nudity. And also i have very close friends who are visiting us with they kids and for us it's ok to see each other children playing naked. We sometimes even share photos of nice moments with our kids, where kids sometimes happen to be naked. Is this already CP? Our kids are 3 and 5 years.
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