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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#761

Post by FredPret »

trasz wrote: post #485
Retric wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an issue in American. Thing is we are talking about renouncing citizenship so the comparison is to other countries. Looking deeply at the social counteracts of other countries is really interesting because of how many different things we take for granted aren’t universal. Free speech in the US is more limited than I would like, but it gets much worse even in countries that look civilized in other ways.

FBI has no jurisdiction outside the US, so you don’t gain anything this way. Free speech in US is poorer than in most Western countries, as it fails to protect you from anything other than most government institutions. For example in US it’s fine for your employer to fire you because they don’t like what you say in your private time. Other countries provide better protection. My question is still unanswered: why woul…

No one is thinking that. It was an example by the other commenter of a free and valuable service provided by the government as part of their side of the bargain

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#762

Post by mbg721 »

javert wrote: post #551
1024core wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't the US reduce it to a flat tax? Say, $1000/year to send you your election ballot, and evacuate you in case something goes horribly wrong.

The US government doesn't work like that. There isn't some logical person making logical decisions. For this change to occur, many senators and representatives would have to be directly and personally incentivized to make the change. They aren't.

Moreover, they're incentivized to do the opposite. Expats aren't a sympathetic group to any major voting demographic.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#763

Post by unishark »

emodendroket wrote: post #703
kingosticks wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the embassy doing for me as an American citizen living abroad who uses none of their services (except passport renewal but that's only because of the other ridiculous rule that US citizens must travel there on a US passport). Why am I paying for it?

What's the fire department doing for me, a citizen of my town who has not experienced any fires? Why am I paying for it?

What if you live in another town and are paying for that fire department? Just kidding. But really if you live in a country which has a tax treaties with the US, you also can offset your taxes with taxes paid to a foreign country anyway, so even for high-earners nothing goes to the embassy. If you do use the embassy, you generally do pay them fees of course.

The embassy is for maintaining relations with foreign countries, not just passports and birth certificates (and pricey notary services). That seems like a sideshow. When it comes to services for the public, they appear to spend most of their time dealing with visa applicants, based on the crowds and lines I've seen. They also do offer assistance for missing persons abroad; if you have a relative that goes missing abroad the embassy will investigate. That seems nice of them. I assume other developed countries' embassies are basically the same though.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#764

Post by Chris2048 »

amcoastal wrote: post #3

Its really a great system we have here --- get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans who pay tons more for basic services and then when it's time to pay back run off and keep your change. No wonder America is doing so well.

> get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans

You could just as well argue America gets insanely wealthy off the backs of globalist foreign labor. But in that case, no "duty" is owed it's just "fair" trade.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#765

Post by Chris2048 »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #27

Pretty crazy with people like Eric Schmitt applying for Cyrus citizenship. The guy is worth $20+ billion. You'd think at that point you hate tax like the rest of us but recognise it makes zero difference to your own quality of life and this is what funds great nations. US and other countries need to come down hard on wealth movement in general. Biden's global tax minimums are a good start but government will need to…

> this is what funds great nations

Is the US a greater nation than Cyprus?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#766

Post by Chris2048 »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #58
papito wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could impose a citizenship "exit tax", if you are worth more than X amount of dollars, I reckon.

I believe the US already has an "exit tax" where you're taxed on unrealized capital gains when you give up citizenship, similar to how you'd be taxed if you realized the gains by selling.

What kind of capital gains, given foreigners can hold US assets.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#767

Post by dzhiurgis »

sangnoir wrote: post #759
dzhiurgis wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you live without residence? Say I'm sailing around the world. My home country could be thousands of miles away, pretty much unreachable in a practical way. Should that still count as my residence?

> Can you live without residence? ding You've just discovered another hidden trick that the ultra-wealthy use to minimize their tax-burdens: in each year, they travel and ensure they do not reside long enough in each country to be considered resident fir tax purposes.

It's not really a trick if you don't use the services, especially healthcare or education system. I'd be all in for nomad tax at something sane like 10% or some trade pact that you can get healthcare and edu for free anywhere in the world (already the case within EU).

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#768

Post by dang »

papito wrote: post #9

From the bottom of my heart, fuck off . If you get blackmailed, abducted, squeezed or raided in any way, the U.S. will have the privilege of not caring. These tools accumulated massive wealth by corrupting the U.S. political system, gutting the IRS, and bringing their effective tax rate lower than most other citizens' - and it is still not enough. I guess it's a tall order to ask to keep your grubby paws away and not…

Please don't break the site guidelines like this.

You may not owe whoever you're fulminating about any better, but you do owe this community better if you're participating in it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#769

Post by Chris2048 »

Retric wrote: post #371
Chris2048 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citizenship comes with all sorts of obligations like getting drafted and serving on juries If you've already done those things, does the IRS pay you ?

Obligations don’t work that way, do you get paid for paying your debts? The personal benefit from the obligation to serve on juries is the option of being tried by a jury of your peers.

You compare obligations to debt (which do have an upfront playout) but then state there is a benefit. How does that work with debt? Why would a jury of peers be a benefit, unless you assume positive bias? How does that work with the draft?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#770

Post by flippinburgers »

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

So which investment firms will work with you? Asking for a friend...

Also are you referring to FATCA when you talk about investment firms? My understanding is that FATCA doesn't really become an issue until you have more than a certain amount of assets in the country you are living in.

FBAR does have to always be reported for all accounts but is a separate issue.

EDIT: I think I misread. I was wondering if you were having problems with investment firms in the USA not wanting to work with you. Are you saying that you are trying to invest using companies located in your current country of residence?

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