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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#51

Post by ironchef »

syops wrote: post #29
altcognito wrote: post #2

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

If a person has no income or capital gains from the U.S. and doesn’t live in the U.S. shouldn’t they be exempt from paying U.S. taxes? Also, shouldn’t foreign financial institutions be exempt from reporting to the U.S. about financial activities of U.S. citizens when they are outside the U.S.? I think the answer to both questions ought to be yes. EDIT: I’m aware of the rules regarding income taxes for Americans based…

"If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside." - per the IRS (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxp...)

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#53

Post by foolinaround »

altcognito wrote: post #2

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

> The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US.

Do we forbid foreigners from holding US stocks, assets, etc?

Who do you think is financing the profligate lifestyle we live, compared to our true earnings?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#54

Post by papito »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #16
altcognito wrote: post #2

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

It's probably pointless to discuss this with someone who insists on generalizing anyone above a certain net worth as being selfish, but - As it turns out, it's no longer the 80s, and there are increasingly multiple other countries were the super-rich can move their activities, wealth and lifestyle to without missing a beat. Hanging around financial circles, I've seen a large exodus of people through the pandemic star…

These are the same people who fund and profit from outfits that keep telling some of us that maybe we should be more patriotic.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#55

Post by cpursley »

ren_engineer wrote: post #39
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably pointless to discuss this with someone who insists on generalizing anyone above a certain net worth as being selfish, but - As it turns out, it's no longer the 80s, and there are increasingly multiple other countries were the super-rich can move their activities, wealth and lifestyle to without missing a beat. Hanging around financial circles, I've seen a large exodus of people through the pandemic star…

the point is that generally there is some expectation of loyalty to the country that allowed you to become super-rich in the first place. In finance specifically many of these people participated in outsourcing a huge chunk of the American economy for short term profit and their own gain and are now abandoning ship abandoning your country for lower taxes so you can "live your lifestyle without missing a beat" is disg…

The wealthy in America cover the bulk of the tax revenue collected if the IRS stats are to be trusted.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#56

Post by throwpo »

I stand to make a life changing amount of money through an impending future liquidity event. I cannot understand people who do this.

Throwing away US citizenship for mere extra dollars in ones bank account… What is the state of your life? Have you no family or community? Are you really willing to uproot yourself and your entire lifestyle for mere wealth?

The HN libertarians love to comment on articles like this and point fingers at progressives like they are ruining the US. As someone who would actually feel a significant impact from this, I can tell you I cannot relate to that position at all. Even should there be a wealth tax, or whatever, it would take Jan 6 levels of violent upheaval on the regular before id ever consider giving away my citizenship.

Maybe the minuscule number of people who do this don’t have all that much to tell us—except that avarice knows no limits?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#57

Post by engineer_22 »

papito wrote: post #9

From the bottom of my heart, fuck off . If you get blackmailed, abducted, squeezed or raided in any way, the U.S. will have the privilege of not caring. These tools accumulated massive wealth by corrupting the U.S. political system, gutting the IRS, and bringing their effective tax rate lower than most other citizens' - and it is still not enough. I guess it's a tall order to ask to keep your grubby paws away and not…

These are people with a few million in assets. Enough to retire comfortably. These are not the "Power Elite". At least, there is no evidence that these people are "Ultra-Wealthy", only that they have reached a certain threshold that the US Govt keeps track of them. And it's peaked at around 7,000 persons per year. Hardly a tidal wave of capital flight.

Have you considered that this story was titled in such a way to elicit an emotional response?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#58

Post by CodesInChaos »

papito wrote: post #13
rory wrote: post #6

Without getting into the moral debate of taxing US Citizens globally... how could the US government stop this from happening? Surely these ex-citizens hold a lot of assets in the US, and most probably spend a lot of time in the country. Could the gov't effectively banish them or ban them from holding assets in US assets? What would be the side effects of such a law?

They could impose a citizenship "exit tax", if you are worth more than X amount of dollars, I reckon.

I believe the US already has an "exit tax" where you're taxed on unrealized capital gains when you give up citizenship, similar to how you'd be taxed if you realized the gains by selling.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#59

Post by mytailorisrich »

rory wrote: post #6

Without getting into the moral debate of taxing US Citizens globally... how could the US government stop this from happening? Surely these ex-citizens hold a lot of assets in the US, and most probably spend a lot of time in the country. Could the gov't effectively banish them or ban them from holding assets in US assets? What would be the side effects of such a law?

> how could the US government stop this from happening?

By taxing based on residency, not citizenship, like pretty much all other countries on Earth.

People have the right to lower their tax liability within the law, they have the right to move, and they have the right to renounce citizenship (if they have another one). We're not going to prevent any of that from happening. The only thing the US can do is to remove the incentive to renounce citizenship if they think that this is a problem.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#60

Post by rwmj »

tartoran wrote: post #46
bitdivision wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about who is giving up citizenship here. Obviously there are some high profile people who are still highly involved with the US, but I'd imagine a lot of folks doing this are those who don't live in America and don't want to deal with the hassle and cost of filing US tax returns every year when they earn no money in the US.

This article is about wealthy people. We all know they are paying relatively no taxes or doing their best to. Yes, Americans who moved to Europe and are happily making a living there are also giving up US citizenship but end up paying taxes in 2 places or deal with a lot of hassle they’d rather not

No one's moving the Europe for the lower taxes.
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