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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#11

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

> while simultaneously holding most of the influence.

There are 20 million millionaires in the states. This is not even 10,000 people year over year with assets, not even net worth, over $2 million. This is a tiny fraction of the population, most of whom are contrarian or pursue an alternative lifestyle, given that they are living abroad.

I would hardly call someone with $2 million as having outsized influenced, they're barely upper middle class or be able to afford a house in San Francisco. If we assume this distribution obey a power-law, there are a small percentage of individuals here there who are ultra ultra wealthy to have that influence.

There are ideological reasons to renounce citizenship, and maybe having a small amount of wealth enables to pursue this option as it involves legal fees and also affordance of living off investment income. There are likely many poor people who would like to leave to, but don't have the financial means to. The data set will be biased towards those who can afford the process.

Furthermore, renouncement of citizenship involves exit taxes, on which people have already paid taxes.

> The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country

On what legal grounds? They can't enter on a tourist visa? To visit a dying friend or family member one last time?

> nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US.

Then we should stop all foreign investments and investors.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#12

It is good that we have such process for people to push back against their government greed. Usually, the citizenry is at the mercy of it and can’t do anything about it. You don’t like it? Fine. You have a choice and can get out. Good safety valve. It keeps the populist governments in check.

They're not leaving, they're just giving up their civic rights (and duties).

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#13
post #6

Without getting into the moral debate of taxing US Citizens globally... how could the US government stop this from happening? Surely these ex-citizens hold a lot of assets in the US, and most probably spend a lot of time in the country. Could the gov't effectively banish them or ban them from holding assets in US assets? What would be the side effects of such a law?

They could impose a citizenship "exit tax", if you are worth more than X amount of dollars, I reckon.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not just America, the 0.01% around the world are all learning this lesson...

so where are they all going?

Some to Singapore https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2012/05/11/faceb...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#16

They’ve been allowed for decades to avoid paying for the infrastructure and management of the country while simultaneously holding most of the influence. “Renouncing citizenship” means they’ll give up none of the influence, lose the taxes, live how and wherever they want. The best thing to do is forbid them re-entry into the country nor to hold controlling interest in any company in the US. Faced with actual conseque…

It's probably pointless to discuss this with someone who insists on generalizing anyone above a certain net worth as being selfish, but -

As it turns out, it's no longer the 80s, and there are increasingly multiple other countries were the super-rich can move their activities, wealth and lifestyle to without missing a beat.

Hanging around financial circles, I've seen a large exodus of people through the pandemic star the process of moving pieces towards places like Dubai and Singapore.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#18
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not just America, the 0.01% around the world are all learning this lesson...

so where are they all going?

New Zealand it seems. An island country of 5 million with some of the most expensive real estate and highest suicide rates of the developed world.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#20
post #9

From the bottom of my heart, fuck off . If you get blackmailed, abducted, squeezed or raided in any way, the U.S. will have the privilege of not caring. These tools accumulated massive wealth by corrupting the U.S. political system, gutting the IRS, and bringing their effective tax rate lower than most other citizens' - and it is still not enough. I guess it's a tall order to ask to keep your grubby paws away and not…

> and it is still not enough

It never will be.

I don’t think you can psychologically become a billionaire if you have the mindset that permits leaving a penny on the table.

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