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94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

thetimes.co.uk

101–110 of 142 posts

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#101
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer is that schools probably should not open at all. They are basically ideal breeding grounds for the virus - kids are gross and spread everything to begin with, plus you have 30 kids sitting in close proximity, communal lunch-halls, crowded hallways, overcrowded bus transportation... and in higher grades you shuffle the contact groups an additional 7x per day as people change classes. It is literally th…

> The reality is we're just throwing kids under the bus to die What the hell are you talking about? The CDC has said children are at less risk of death from Covid-19 than they are from influenza. Were we "throwing them under the bus to die" when we opened schools in every year before 2020 without masks and "stay apart from your biohazard friends" social distancing? Also, "Study shows schools do not spread Covid": htt…

Schools are no different from any other mass gathering - if you practice social distancing, it's relatively safe. On the other hand, various states are already hard at work banning schools from even requiring masks, and schools simply are not built for social distancing, and a mass return to school while maintaining social distancing would require substantial expansions of school buildings, buses, staff, etc. We don't want to spend that money so we are just going to give up on the social distancing instead.

Where people mask up, and when the area has low covid levels, students don't spread that much. Once the area takes off, the schools do indeed spread. (Which is kind of an obvious statement when you think about it, like of course kids don't magically have COVID when nobody else does, but also that they can spread it once an area starts getting a significant infection rate.)

I don't think going back to school in a state that has banned schools from masking up, during the surge of delta variant we're currently undergoing, is particularly safe at all, no.

> No, it's because an education is a fundamental human right which is being denied to children, and the policy of closing schools has caused immense damage to their learning and mental health for practically zero benefit in reducing the harm caused by the virus.

It's great that you have such strongly-held values! Then you won't mind spending the money to expand schools appropriately so a safe environment can be maintained, since the education of children is such a critical social outcome.

Like, I remember my high school and 25 kids was a small class, and hell no we weren't 6 feet apart. Explain to me how we get 2500 people 6 feet away from each other in a building that was designed to serve 2000 students that are 2 feet away from each other. That's the question that has to be answered to reopen safely.

Once schools are reopen en-masse, instead of just a limited basis (that allows spacing), we're going to have to address that capacity problem. Or more realistically, we just won't, and if the kids spread then oh well.

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#102
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, at the rate we're going it feels like they'll require 5 year olds to have the Covid vaccines to attend public school after finishing a five month, phase I trial in 3,000 kids.

The real answer is that schools probably should not open at all. They are basically ideal breeding grounds for the virus - kids are gross and spread everything to begin with, plus you have 30 kids sitting in close proximity, communal lunch-halls, crowded hallways, overcrowded bus transportation... and in higher grades you shuffle the contact groups an additional 7x per day as people change classes. It is literally th…

What an ignorant comment. Children without serious co-morbid conditions are not at risk.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccin...

Lack of education is a greater risk for children (and society as a whole) than any virus.

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#103
post #96
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like the stupidest lottery to enter into however. Even people without an "underlying health condition" have died. And even those who haven't died are experiencing long term complications from having had COVID. So you can either hope you don't have a hard time with COVID if you catch it. Or you can drastically reduce your chances of having a hard time and of catching it all by just taking a couple minutes o…

Vaccines are great and very effective at preventing bad outcomes, but let's be realistic about risks. Very few people without an underlying health condition have died. 94.9% of hospitalizations had an underlying health condition. Mainly high blood pressure, obesity, and diabetes. https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/21_0123.htm 99% of deaths in Italy had an underlying health condition. https://www.bloombergquint.com/o…

You do know that about half of all people in the U.S. classify as having hypertension, right? It's not uncommon. People who look perfectly healthy and feel like nothing is wrong can have it.

You probably have it.

So if we're being "realistic about risks", we have to acknowledge that roughly half of all people who get COVID are going to have at least one "underlying health condition".

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#104
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is we're just throwing kids under the bus to die What the hell are you talking about? The CDC has said children are at less risk of death from Covid-19 than they are from influenza. Were we "throwing them under the bus to die" when we opened schools in every year before 2020 without masks and "stay apart from your biohazard friends" social distancing? Also, "Study shows schools do not spread Covid": htt…

Schools are no different from any other mass gathering - if you practice social distancing, it's relatively safe. On the other hand, various states are already hard at work banning schools from even requiring masks, and schools simply are not built for social distancing, and a mass return to school while maintaining social distancing would require substantial expansions of school buildings, buses, staff, etc. We don'…

Just trying to imagine the thought process that leads one to conclude -- given everything we know about Covid and its (lack of) harm to children, and the widespread availability of protective vaccines to any teachers & staff who want one -- that the thing we should do is spend vast resources stretching the size of every school building, classroom, and bus to ensure people can remain 6 feet apart at all times, in perpetuity. And that we shouldn't reopen schools until we do this. It's really something!

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#105
post #74
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. It's because when we were trying to flatten the curve, there were far too many people who denied it was anything more serious than the flu and didn't take any precautions. Same with slowing the spread. People did not listen. Because they were "free critical thinkers who can reach their own conclusions thank you very much". And they were wrong. And now they've put us here.

> there were far too many people who denied it was anything more serious than the flu and didn't take any precautions. Well apparently quite a number of people must have taken precautions, because that's the explanation for why the flu has basically disappeared off the face of the earth.

The flu is far less contagious than COVID.

Even small measures affect the numbers.

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#106
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be trying to "flatten the curve" and "slow the spread" to needlessly take extra long to get to the same final place - natural herd immunity.

I wouldn't say needlessly. There are people in towns near my city that would normally be transported to the cities ICUs, but they can't because there is no room. People say the tests or the vaccine don't work but no one claims more than 3 percent of their hospitalized covid cases have been previously vaccinated. So, whatever the test tests for, the vaccine mostly prevents, and that thing is taking up way too many of…

It makes sense to impose restrictions where vaccination rates are low and ICUs are being filled up (or will be filled up due to continued growth in cases over the coming weeks in the absence of restrictions).

That's not the case in the SF Bay Area where vaccination rates are very high, keeping hospitalizations and ICU use low, yet mask mandates were reimposed here. We have plenty of ICU capacity.

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why haven't we spent time bolstering healthcare then? Why have all the field hospitals been destroyed as fast as they were put up?

IMO an even more important question is, why aren't we pursuing early outpatient treatment with combinations of existing over the counter medicines? Such techniques have proven to be very effective at preventing hospitalization and death for SARS-CoV-2 [1][2], yet you will rarely find anyone advocating for them. The papers I've cited are some of the most highly cited in the literature, with world-wide support from exp…

> why aren't we pursuing early outpatient treatment with combinations of existing over the counter medicines

Doesn't this come back (yet again) to the financial incentives?

Go to FDA.gov and read up on "Emergency Use Authorization"[0]:

> FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.

If it were to turn out that an existing (possibly cheap? maybe even a generic? ) over-the-counter medicine is a good treatment for C19 then that would undercut the business plans of Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca and co.

Asking "cui bono" has never been more appropriate.

[0] https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-...

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#108
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming majority of children in the US receive the MMR jab either due to public school pressure or immigration policy. It is unlikely that COVID vaccination will ever reach the same levels, despite sufficient abundance of vaccine supply to play vaccine diplomacy around the world. Meanwhile we have Australia deploying the military to enforce acute lockdowns because they failed to secure enough vaccines early…

They are talking about mandatory vaccinations for some schools.

Florida is threatening defunding schools that seek to require masks. Just masks. COVID vaccination has become a political expression of personal freedom.

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#109
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that more people are in the hospital in Florida right now than at any time in the last two years would seem to disprove any speculation of here immunity.

Can we stop with this please? > The fact that more people are in the hospital in Florida right now than at any time in the last two years THIS IS NOT TRUE. The metric you are describing is hospital census , which is _not_ at an all-time high right now. What is at an all time high? The percentage of people in the hospital who have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, regardless of their presentation. The roundtable just ye…

I think the media is at least partly to blame for this. I have the greatest respect for the BBC, but look at this headline: Covid third wave: Florida surpasses all-time record for hospital admissions. Totally unsupported by the article. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58077209

With regards to metrics that are peaking, FT reports that "Occupancy in the south-eastern US state’s intensive care units is on course to hit an all-time high by this weekend." (But then again, I've no idea whether this is actually accurate since they don't cite their source. Besides, it's clearly an extrapolation.) https://www.ft.com/content/21ed4e9c-2b20-4a9d-bf38-6b76212be...

Re: 94% of English adults have Covid antibodies, ONS data shows

#110
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that more people are in the hospital in Florida right now than at any time in the last two years would seem to disprove any speculation of here immunity.

Can we stop with this please? > The fact that more people are in the hospital in Florida right now than at any time in the last two years THIS IS NOT TRUE. The metric you are describing is hospital census , which is _not_ at an all-time high right now. What is at an all time high? The percentage of people in the hospital who have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, regardless of their presentation. The roundtable just ye…

"The Florida Hospital Association on Monday reported 10,389 Covid-19 hospitalizations, the most statewide during any point in the pandemic. "

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2021/08/02/flo...

> I just don't understand the point of constantly misrepresenting this metric. It muddies the waters of actual concerns about the spread of the virus by making it seem like those are are concerned are dishonest.

> Stop it.

That must be this "projection" I keep hearing about.

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