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Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

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Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#241

Post by anthony_d »

mm983 wrote: post #213
fallingknife wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child abusers evolve and are very happy if law enforcement doesn't. Yes. And now they will evolve by developing a simple system to modify pixels in images when they copy and transmit that will easily defeat this hashing system. The only effect this will have is that moral panickers like you will have got everybody's privacy invaded over your moral panic of the day.

Again, you don't appear to know how this works. Look up fuzzy hash, i even mentioned it in the comment.

Just saying "fuzzy hash" doesn't begin to explain how this would work. There are an infinite variety of algorithms along with arbitrary tolerances configurable. "fuzzy hash" just isn't helpful no matter how many times you repeat it.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#243

Post by heavyset_go »

mm983 wrote: post #161
cronix wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, AI is very good at these things and never makes mistakes. It is so advanced it even understands nuance and complex communication mechanisms like sarcasm in text, even if it's only a single sentence to contrast! It will be able to know exactly the context of each image and it will affect only the sickos. We're also working on watching your face through the camera to see your true expression when viewing t…

This is painful to read with the arrogant undertone while you don't actually know how CSAM scanning works. It's fuzzy hash, not ""AI"", based. Cloudflare uses it too, and last time i checked the web is still functional. https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004610611... How about we turn the tables and have the complainers suggest a solution. Because every single time an approach to targeted child porn t…

> It's fuzzy hash, not ""AI"", based. Cloudflare uses it too, and last time i checked the web is still functional.

If they're using fuzzy matching with perceptual hashes, then the space that false positives can exist in for each perceptual hash is huge.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#244

Post by BatFastard »

sigzero wrote: post #180
cronix wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, AI is very good at these things and never makes mistakes. It is so advanced it even understands nuance and complex communication mechanisms like sarcasm in text, even if it's only a single sentence to contrast! It will be able to know exactly the context of each image and it will affect only the sickos. We're also working on watching your face through the camera to see your true expression when viewing t…

I think this is sarcasm given the last bit.

Really?

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#245

Post by smnrchrds »

macintux wrote: post #142
smnrchrds wrote: post #58

When it comes to Apple and privacy, it's important to differentiate two different types of privacy: (1) privacy against snooping by the state, and (2) privacy against snooping by all others. As we had seen with Apple and China, it's only the second type of privacy that Apple cares about. Sharing your information with the state is not out of character for Apple. In fact, had they done the opposite, it would have been…

Apple cares about #1 when they feel the requests are not legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI–Apple_encryption_dispute Apple has to comply with the law, however.

What law prompted this new feature we are discussing here?

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#246

Post by elzbardico »

jandrese wrote: post #104
partiallypro wrote: post #14

I really don't see how this is going to end well, there could be perfectly innocent photos on someone's phone of their own children doing perfectly normal things that kids do. Like a kid running butt naked around the house, or a photo of something like a rash that is sent to a nurse friend for advice on what it is etc. I'm all for protecting children from being abused, but how are they going to filter what is normal…

Or when an internet troll gets your email address and/or phone number and starts spamming you with child porn pictures, which your phone immediately identifies and notifies authorities.

A completely new way of swating someone

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#247

Post by yellow_lead »

tyingq wrote: post #133
Someone1234 wrote: post #52

If it matches, am I guilty until found innocent? I have no illicit images, but false positives are always going to be a problem and even at sub-1% rates if you're scanning literally every image stored on an iOS devices that could still be thousands of wrong matches. If I lose the false-positive lottery, am I going to have the police calling and have my mugshot in the evening news for "CP on their device" in particula…

"I have no illicit images, but false positives are always going to be a problem" Or someone that doesn't like you can MMS/iMessage/e-mail you images that match PhotoDNA image hashes. Maybe even in a way where the images don't appear to be anything alarming.

Yep, Google can break SHA1, so what hash are they using? Proprietary information I assume.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#248

Post by heavyset_go »

fallingknife wrote: post #197
mm983 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is painful to read with the arrogant undertone while you don't actually know how CSAM scanning works. It's fuzzy hash, not ""AI"", based. Cloudflare uses it too, and last time i checked the web is still functional. https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004610611... How about we turn the tables and have the complainers suggest a solution. Because every single time an approach to targeted child porn t…

> Child abusers evolve and are very happy if law enforcement doesn't. Yes. And now they will evolve by developing a simple system to modify pixels in images when they copy and transmit that will easily defeat this hashing system. The only effect this will have is that moral panickers like you will have got everybody's privacy invaded over your moral panic of the day.

> And now they will evolve by developing a simple system to modify pixels in images when they copy and transmit that will easily defeat this hashing system

They don't use simple file hashes to match images, but perceptual hashes. That way they can find modified derivatives of a source image. The problem with this approach, though, is that this is ripe for false positives. Two completely unrelated images can have similar hashes.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#249

Post by diebeforei485 »

mm983 wrote: post #161
cronix wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, AI is very good at these things and never makes mistakes. It is so advanced it even understands nuance and complex communication mechanisms like sarcasm in text, even if it's only a single sentence to contrast! It will be able to know exactly the context of each image and it will affect only the sickos. We're also working on watching your face through the camera to see your true expression when viewing t…

This is painful to read with the arrogant undertone while you don't actually know how CSAM scanning works. It's fuzzy hash, not ""AI"", based. Cloudflare uses it too, and last time i checked the web is still functional. https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/36004610611... How about we turn the tables and have the complainers suggest a solution. Because every single time an approach to targeted child porn t…

It makes sense for website owners to scan what's being uploaded to their servers, but that is totally different from scanning what's stored locally on people's devices.

Re: Apple plans to scan US iPhones for child abuse imagery

#250

Post by skinkestek »

threatofrain wrote: post #82
Ancapistani wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The odds of This number is equivalent to generating 1 billion UUIDs per second for about 85 years." If we're talking about random files, sure. What if the files are intentionally created to match the desired hash? The malicious actor doing this could be a private party intending to disrupt your life, but it could also be law enforcement as a means of gaining access to your device when it would otherwise require a…

Or what if you're a researcher who has downloaded a collection of these assets? Wouldn't you be a very high signal hit, beyond even actual perpetrators of crime? Would you need the protection of an umbrella organization to do research? Or register with the government perhaps?

I'm as against this as anyone,but to be blunt:

This is digital biowarfare material of the worst kind and should be handled as such.

Any researcher downloading this material to anything but lab machines should probably receive a visit from the relevant authorities to make sure they understand the seriousness of it.

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