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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#421

Post by madengr »

bnralt wrote: post #411
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Many Americans seem to believe that, but it doesn't actually seem to be the case. For instance, when Yemen was falling apart, countries like China, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia all worked hard to evacuate their citizens, many using their military to do so[1]. The U.S. response was to tell American citizens they were on their own[2]. The U.S. embassy even recommended that Americans seek assistance from India…

As a US citizen, you are less likely to be tortured in a foreign prison. This book is a good read:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Acid_Gambit

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#422

Post by aerostable_slug »

marcosdumay wrote: post #399
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Most countries grant those same benefits.

But they don't have a MEU sitting off conflict zones waiting to leap into action. The United States will literally send the Marines to save a citizen. A person from, say, Ecuador probably doesn't enjoy the same amount of risk coverage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_expeditionary_unit

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#423

Post by depressedpanda »

oblio wrote: post #277
nivenkos wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll still get like 10% of a US salary though.

10% is a gross exaggeration, though. Romania has lower salaries than Poland, as far as I know, and in Romania as a senior engineer in a decent company you can get a total > compensation of €3.5k - €4k per month, that would be ~$4k - $4.8k per month, so ~$48k - ~58k. Again, net. And probably more since there are companies that give you RSUs/ESPPs, so you can go along for the ride. Not as many as in the US, obviously,…

I don't know if whether the numbers you quote for Romania are correct or not (Polish salaries for devs are not even remotely close to that), but a salary that nets you €4k/month after taxes is not very common in Sweden - which is considered a richer country than Romania.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#424

Post by zz865 »

hnthrwy1111 wrote: post #185

I'm an "accidental American" who has navigated this issue and it's incredibly easy. Just don't file. Every professional that writes blogs about this has a professional duty to give legal advice but the practical advice is just don't file. Look into what exactly triggers data to be sent to the IRS under your tax treaty and the policies of your financial institutions. Being "accidental" is the key here. If you tell you…

Ask John McAfee how not filing turned out.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#425

Post by Dracophoenix »

ithinkso wrote: post #174
academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

It's also problematic in other way, my friends moved to US for a job for few years and had kids there. US gives you citizenship by place of birth so the kids have US citizenship. Now that they are back they are in a bit of a pickle not knowing what to do, the kids might be screwed and own money to the US for nothing when they grow up but renouncing it now for them also doesn't make sense (if even possible) because th…

Look up "Accidental Americans". It's been a problem for a lot of people including, especially Canadians and Mexicans who were born on the wrong side of the border.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#426

Post by smnrchrds »

shell0x wrote: post #187
circular_logic wrote: post #63

Interesting facts about renouncing American citizenship: - There is renunciation fee that has to be paid and currently stands at $2,350 (the highest in the world).[1] - A final tax return will sill need to be filed. [1] - An Expatriation tax is payable if [..] Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation. you will be treated as having disposed of your assets the day before your expatriation a…

While $2350 is expensive, compare that to Australia. My friend got sponsored by his partner for a partner visa and the fee is AUD7,850 for most applicants. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-li... It's a huge rip-off like everything in this country. The $2350 seem to be cheaper than fees for filing annual tax returns for the next 50 years :)

The fee for renouncing Australian citizenship is 265 AUD equivalent to 196 USD.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/give-up-citizens...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#427

Post by Dracophoenix »

cortesoft wrote: post #327
academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

On the other hand, is it right to be able to leave the country indefinitely, not contribute to the country at all, but still expect to have all the benefits of citizenship forever?

What benefits does one have when living in a foreign country as a US citizen? There is no legal representation. There is no access to US government services. What exactly would an overseas US citizen be paying for?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#428

Post by Dracophoenix »

Chris2048 wrote: post #147
academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

What's unfair isn't this practise per-say, but the fact that it's not equal. I think keeping hold of foreign citizenship represents an unfair advantage to some degree, as a kind of "fallback" - e.g. if things go to shit you always have the option of returning home. but other nationalities generally don't need to pay to remain citizens while they are abroad, so Americans are treated unusually.

How is it unfair to have fallback option? Is it unfair to California when someone decides to move Texas for lower taxes?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#429

Post by estebank »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #310
berinateni wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Schmidt renounced his US citizenship even though he owns 2 California homes and one in Massachusetts.

You don't have to be a US citizen to purchase property in the country. This is the same for many of the European, Central/South American and South East Asian countries. Is it as straightforward as being a citizen no, but it can usually be done without much extra effort.

Also, given the exit tax, he'll have to pay taxes on them as if he had sold the properties, despite the properties not having been sold.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#430

Post by Retric »

trasz wrote: post #410
Retric wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a reciprocal relationship with rights and obligations on both sides not ownership. For example the FBI doesn’t invoice victims or their families when it gets involved in kidnapping cases. Capital gains are deferred without interest until an asset it sold, that doesn’t mean there wasn’t an obligation for those years.

> FBI doesn’t invoice victims what

They don’t charge money to investigate crimes.
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