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Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

cnn.com

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Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#201

Post by motohagiography »

varelse wrote: post #174
motohagiography wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth do we tolerate these tedious outgroup-blame posts? If only our problems could be solved by blaming them on scapegoats and pariahs. It's like intelligent and competent people engage in political talk because it's relaxing to not be held to the same standards and rigour of their actual field of expertise, and it's somehow satisfying to have the attention of people who can't tell the difference.

Because this is an out group constantly endangering the well-being of others? It really is one. Or if it isn't, then what exactly is it? Your body, your choices, your consequences, but not mine or anyone else's. Why is the right to dodge vaccination and masks so important, so absolutely vital, so incredibly on target that we risk the destruction of the Republic itself if we mandate them? Do you also support my right…

I sincerely believe this hesitancy issue is designed to identify people as offside and as a wedge issue or scissor statement, and not as discourse to derive facts about the topic.

Blaming the hesitant and making histrionic claims is like trying to convince me of some eugenic racist theory, where it's just a fast filter that repels everyone intelligent enough to disagree with you and leaves you with a remainder of easily fooled people you can exploit for political ends. Facts in this context are meaningless other than as signals of what side you're on.

If someone wants to take the risk of volunteering for the vaccine control group in a global pandemic, I wish them luck. Scapegoating turns it into a political problem where everyone thinks they have a meaningful opinion, which I can see the appeal of. But appeal and truth are very different things.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#202

Post by 1123581321 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #107
bigmattystyles wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An RN I know in New Orleans makes a paltry $28 / hour. Insidiously, they gave her 10k upfront for a 3 year contract. If she leaves, she has to give it back. She put it straight to her student loans so now she’s stuck there. I agree with op, we say we love our front line workers, but that’s just talk. I’m not sure but there’s not much of a union for them down there.

Just ask for a signing bonus at the next job. Definitely heard of signing bonuses that size with agencies for nursing.

Exactly this. In fact competing employers should be expecting to buy out this clawback if her current employer commonly does this.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#203

Post by mumblemumble »

dantheman wrote: post #186
mumblemumble wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I think that this is very much a result of a market failure. In a lot of metro areas, the health care networks have been consolidating, so that a single company dominates the market. That creates a double problem. It's not just that they don't have to pay a reasonable market rate for staff. It's also that they don't have to maintain a reasonable staffing level, because dissatisfied and poorly-treated patients don…

Hard to call it a market failure when the government restricts new entrants and highly regulates every aspect of healthcare.

At least in the clinic a family member of mine owned, regulation was far from the biggest challenge. It was billing, especially interacting with private health insurance companies. Dealing with their labyrinthine systems costs a lot of money and time.

The private insurance companies are a big factor driving the consolidation, too. As the care networks consolidate their negotiating power, it gives them more and more of a competitive advantage over their smaller competitors, who have relatively less ability to negotiate good rates. That, in turn, leads to them having to drop off of the insurers' networks, which then results in patients being directed elsewhere.

I certainly don't want to say that government influence has no influence, but the brand of capitalism that sees government as the source of all evil is more about politics than economics. Economically speaking, cartels and informal cartel-like systems can be just as harmful. You don't get a healthy, well-functioning market by indiscriminately yanking any one lever; you get it by carefully tending the garden, and balancing a lot of competing considerations.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#204

Post by varelse »

adolph wrote: post #193
varelse wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your freedom stops at others immune systems. Think of this as a choose your own adventure. And if you don't wish to be vaccinated or wear a mask you are opting into the road less traveled. What's with all this negativity? But smoke all you want, they already factor that into health insurance costs. Drive drunk all you want, but don't whine if you get caught and they throw you in jail and take away your car and licens…

> Drive drunk all you want, but don't whine if you get caught and they throw you in jail and take away your car and license. Do you think a person who sustained an injury while they were intoxicated and needs medical treatment "get zero health insurance coverage?" Would it matter if they were at fault? Do you think a person who made a poor life decision "get zero health insurance coverage?" > What's with all this neg…

1.I think they should get medical coverage if they have insurance and then they should be thrown in jail losing both their licence and their car. And then criminally charged if anyone else was harmed through their actions.

2. Does their poor life decision harm others or just themselves? If the former (say a mass shooting), yes. But I support your right to self harm though I'd hope someone cared enough about you to dissuade you.

You asked. I'm not against people refusing masks and vaccination if they're willing to isolate themselves, I'm against them imposing their poor decisions on everything else or it's a tragedy of the commons IMO. I don't expect anyone to share my views, they're mine.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#205

Post by [deleted] »

dividefuel wrote: post #184
mumblemumble wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disgruntled nurses I know don't want more money anywhere near as much as they want things like lunch and bathroom breaks. Money can't buy happiness, but not being able to take care of your basic bodily needs can absolutely buy unhappiness.

My spouse is just starting her first RN job. As part of the onboarding, an administrator/HR person called and strongly suggested that she sign a paper waiving one of her 30 minute lunch periods. Even though the paper says "I am not being coerced", it's pretty clear that signing it is necessary for getting the job.

[deleted]

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#206

Post by joshgrib »

MarkLowenstein wrote: post #195

Did they walk off the job in December and January, when they had higher than the current numbers of infection for 2 months straight? CNN is highlighting this non-unique situation to dump on a hated "red" state. Will they be there in a week, when "blue" Oregon, Washington, and Hawaii all have bigger numbers than they've ever seen? Those states all social-distanced themselves into ripe fruit, ready for picking by the m…

Does social distancing somehow increase the risk of getting the Delta? I did some searching and couldn't find anything to back that up, if a certain state was better at social distancing the first time it seems like they probably would be for the next one too

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#207

Post by Jeema101 »

dageshi wrote: post #47

All the people who hate the masks and hate the vaccines never really have any answer to this, what happens when the hospitals fill to capacity or the staff give up from exhaustion. No answers.

It seemed obvious to me from the beginning that hospital capacity would slowly decrease over time the longer the pandemic wears on.

I mean you can run people ragged for a while, but eventually they will give out on you. It works the same in any profession.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#208

Post by iamadog55 »

lamontcg wrote: post #182
iamadog55 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reluctant to leverage such language, but this is an appeal to authority. And there's tons of historical evidence that authorities failed to produce their predicted end without regard to their field, specialty, education, politics, etc... So to acede to this solely on the basis that the "intelligentsia" has is perhaps just as blind a means as a coinflip. And there is of course a plenitude of arguments about how po…

> I'm reluctant to leverage such language, but this is an appeal to authority. Then so was the comment it was responding to

Let's dissect this: >I think it's notable that there is substantial resistance to vaccines even among health care workers.

So here, the poster asserts that they find it notable, as in worthy of remark, that within the domain of healthcare people are opting out. The poster does not make any conjecture or assertions aside from that, the poster does not lean on any position nor support one from the authority of the "healthcare worker" mosaic. Instead, the poster very simply states that it is remarkable that that cohort chooses to remain unvaccinated without any further context.

The proceeding post moves to make assertions and stratify the cohort into classes, and implicitly posits the superior decisionmaking of the educated, arguing at what is in actuality a phantasm, as the parent did not postulate anything whatever. I suspect he projected some archetype onto the parent, hazarded induction, and argued with an appeal to authority in an attempt to make a point that needn't be asserted in the context.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#209

Post by tehjoker »

linuxftw wrote: post #153
tehjoker wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of them. Even if the breakthrough infections are the same as an unvaccinated person (still being studied, but I've heard everything from one third to same for the first six days), there are fewer infections overall. This causes a sharp average reduction in R0.

The injections were only found to be efficacious in preventing severe illness. Everything else is conjecture at best.

They were found to inhibit infection via PCR testing and comparison with a control group. There may be a waning effect, especially with delta. I don't believe they're perfect by any means, but they certainly aren't worthless.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#210

Post by MarkLowenstein »

naturalauction wrote: post #76
citilife wrote: post #27

I dont know how you can take CNN seriously, they've repeatedly been show to suppress real information and promote single cases to support a narrative. They've even been caught bragging about this. Regarding capacity, hospitals are designed to run at 90% capacity -- the state literally limits the number of hospitals in regions to ensure this is the case (i.e. hospitals stay profitable). ICU capacity is often at 100% a…

>Also should note, I can't help but feel this focus on Florida, Texas, Arkansas, etc is because they have banned masks and vaccine mandates. If you look at actual hospitalizations and more importantly death rates you see something different. But this is in the past (or cumulative over the whole pandemic), the news article is talking about now. If you look at current numbers, you can see where hospitalizations are now…

You're both correct. What is being missed is that, partly because of less social-distancing, FL and the MO/AR/LA region are getting hit first, so you can point to the problems there this week. The media dishonesty is that they won't come back next week or in two weeks and give attention to the equivalent problems in VA, OR, WA, etc. The passive headline-reader, who throughout 2020 and 2021 has seen sob story after sob story about South Dakota, Texas, and Florida, must really scratch their heads when looking at the cumulative death rates and wonder how they ended up being so far from the top, when practically 100% of the reported problems were always in those states.
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