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Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

theguardian.com

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Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#41

Post by Fern_Blossom »

billytetrud wrote: post #21
graderjs wrote: post #9

This is awesome. To get the top job, she: beat up her own mother; then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; then in the next 'peanut session' he had to backdown and let her eat first; and now she walks with an erect tail and goes and shakes trees for fun--It expresses her power. How cool is that! It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choos…

It's interesting, but brutal. I wouldn't call this "awesome". Beating up your mother isn't "brave". This is literally a monkey dictatorship. That alpha is probably really shitty to be around.

Quick search, macaques's lifespans are roughly 20-30 years. The old alpha was 31... so, in human terms (roughly), it's like a 20-ish year old woman beats a man in his 60s-70s... and she's "brave".

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#42

Post by tpush »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #36
tpush wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption and diversity are obviously orthogonal issues which I think everyone recognizes, so I'm not sure what point Bill Burr was trying to make. Women being just as corrupt as men is kind of irrelevant for any diversity policy; Burr's joke isn't illuminating much here.

He's attacking the "women-are-wonderful" bias which most people aren't cognizant of. You see lowlifes like the woman who assaulted the teenager last year over a phone hide behind their gender and act like their bad behavior is an impossibility.

I'm sure people with those biases exist, however Burr is willfully conflating these people with any diversity initiative or outreach; that's both unfounded and ignorant, and seems like the kind of joke that you laugh about until you think deeper on it for like 5 minutes.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#43

Post by ookdatnog »

graderjs wrote: post #13
lm28469 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beat up her own mother > just about choices and how brave you choose to be Reminds me of Hollywood directors who think "alpha" women characters have to be regular women with all the traits of "toxic masculinity"

Totally! Agree that feminists and modern women aspiring to adopt male traits rather than embracing innate female goddess energy and power is stupid, especially when they, at the same time, "stand against" how "toxic" men are. But then again, some of those traits you pretend are toxic, are actually just awesome, and work in the human world. So why should "man" or "woman" polarity have dibs on that stuff? That genderin…

> Agree that feminists and modern women aspiring to adopt male traits rather than embracing innate female goddess energy and power is stupid

"Agree that"? What are you on about? The parent comment can't remotely be interpreted to be saying this.

> ... especially when they, at the same time, "stand against" how "toxic" men are.

The term "toxic masculinity" does not imply "masculinity = toxic".

Rather, our culture associates certain (often positive) traits with what it means to "be a (real) man", such as strength, protectiveness, ambition, decisiveness, confidence, courage etc.

"Toxic masculinity" is the cancerous behavior you get when men overshoot in trying to display these qualities, such as authoritarian behavior stemming from an obsession with being perceived as strong; being incapable of letting others shine due to seeing everything as a zero-sum competition; being unreasonably stubborn and unwilling to change their mind out of a desire to be perceived as decisive and confident; pointless risk-seeking behavior potentially putting others at risk etc.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#44

Post by yann2 »

clairity wrote: post #39
rory wrote: post #2

This is all the more impressive because macaques generally display strong sexual dimorphism in size (males are ~45% bigger on average than females, vs. more like ~15% in humans). I wonder how big Yakei is.

it’s strength, both psychological and physical, that correlates most closely with dominance, not size or gender/sex, though those of course tend to correlate with physical strength. a nice property of sexual reproduction (as opposed to asexual) is that you get two chances at having generalized strength in parents, as opposed to one, which correlates with greater family fitness and offspring survival. this is probably…

Ok go read about Gandhi now.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#45

Post by lliamander »

tpush wrote: post #42
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's attacking the "women-are-wonderful" bias which most people aren't cognizant of. You see lowlifes like the woman who assaulted the teenager last year over a phone hide behind their gender and act like their bad behavior is an impossibility.

I'm sure people with those biases exist, however Burr is willfully conflating these people with any diversity initiative or outreach; that's both unfounded and ignorant, and seems like the kind of joke that you laugh about until you think deeper on it for like 5 minutes.

Several world leaders, including former President Barak Obama, have said there would be less wars if women ruled the world. I've seen diversity initiatives justified on the basis that women would make better leaders because they are more "empathetic".

Burr is right in targeting a belief with a high-degree of traction, and that includes among people involved in DEI initiatives.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#46

Post by hypertele-Xii »

Fern_Blossom wrote: post #40
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assholes are so underappreciated they're used for slander. It's an anatomical device that controls defecation; Keeping poop at bay while you go about your business. Stop calling evil "asshole" and you might find your pooping becomes a little easier, as that part of your body is no longer equivocated with malice.

Wait... are you serious? Please tell me you're being funny... oh God... that's where we're at nowadays... I think this is a sincere statement...

Yeah, sincerely. Language shapes thought. An asshole shouldn't be a measure of malice. It's a very useful organ with an important job. Just like you wouldn't call a badly behaving individual "nigger", "gay", nor "retard", you shouldn't call them "dick", "asshole", nor "cunt" neither.

Just call it what it is. By its true name. Actually say the thing you mean. Words exist. Deprecate outdated idioms and try evolving.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#47

Post by IanClarke »

Let's be honest and address the implicitly given analogy to our modern human world. What are the different motivations males and females have in general and why did she end up in this alpha-position, while still lacking a lot of the advantages a male would have (mating and procreating with a lot of females)? It's because "the other gender" also carries all these (particularly very desirable in one gender) traits in them. I always think of men, which have very attractive daughters, like Billy Ray Cyrus (Miley Cyrus) or Rob Schneider (Elle King), but they themselves can't profit that much from the interesting looks (nose) and rather even look like a bum, themselves.

So "the other sex" also inevitably carries around all these (attractive) traits (kind of "reciprocally"), typically: They are there, but don't matter, really. They were inherited and can be passed on, though.

And in this very rare case like this: A female became an alpha. Her masculinity traits, which should rather only exist reciprocally within her (as a female), were coming out so strong, that she beat all the males. Though: No mass-mating (offspring) for her, rather likely: No offspring at all.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#48

Post by tasogare »

ookdatnog wrote: post #43
graderjs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally! Agree that feminists and modern women aspiring to adopt male traits rather than embracing innate female goddess energy and power is stupid, especially when they, at the same time, "stand against" how "toxic" men are. But then again, some of those traits you pretend are toxic, are actually just awesome, and work in the human world. So why should "man" or "woman" polarity have dibs on that stuff? That genderin…

> Agree that feminists and modern women aspiring to adopt male traits rather than embracing innate female goddess energy and power is stupid "Agree that"? What are you on about? The parent comment can't remotely be interpreted to be saying this. > ... especially when they, at the same time, "stand against" how "toxic" men are. The term "toxic masculinity" does not imply "masculinity = toxic". Rather, our culture asso…

> The term "toxic masculinity" does not imply "masculinity = toxic".

It totally does, this is why those two words are used in that expression. The plan is to skew the meaning of masculinity by making the colloquation widely used enough, until it's automatically associated with toxicity even when that word is not present.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#49

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

greyfox wrote: post #30

i wonder what implications this has on mating? will she find a mate? Presumably the male would need to dominate her in order to procreate, that does not appear to be the case, currently. Will she attempt to assume the male role in the mating process? Lots of questions here around this issue.

It would also be interesting to see if the mating strategies and behaviors of the males change too.

Let's hope they are thoroughly monitored and studied.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#50

Post by erhk »

ipspam wrote: post #37
eadmund wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You inspired me to the lifespan of Japanese macaques, and it is 27 years; the previous alpha male was 31 years old, which suggests to me that he must have been pretty over the hill. Given that she is smaller than the average male macaque, I imagine that this is not a terribly stable situation.

Interesting. What are the odds they can set up a livestream so we can watch macaque fight club? I love a good underdog.

I heard yakei was doping, and that she had metal studs implanted in her knuckles
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