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Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

theguardian.com

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Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#31

Post by doitLP »

turing_complete wrote: post #25
graderjs wrote: post #9

This is awesome. To get the top job, she: beat up her own mother; then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; then in the next 'peanut session' he had to backdown and let her eat first; and now she walks with an erect tail and goes and shakes trees for fun--It expresses her power. How cool is that! It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choos…

I am really not sure if this comment is ironic or not. It reads like it has to be, but today you never know.

It is not. Look at poster’s other comments.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#32

Post by taeric »

turing_complete wrote: post #25
graderjs wrote: post #9

This is awesome. To get the top job, she: beat up her own mother; then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; then in the next 'peanut session' he had to backdown and let her eat first; and now she walks with an erect tail and goes and shakes trees for fun--It expresses her power. How cool is that! It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choos…

I am really not sure if this comment is ironic or not. It reads like it has to be, but today you never know.

With most of the responses, I am also not clear on this.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#33

Post by taeric »

prvc wrote: post #23
graderjs wrote: post #9

This is awesome. To get the top job, she: beat up her own mother; then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; then in the next 'peanut session' he had to backdown and let her eat first; and now she walks with an erect tail and goes and shakes trees for fun--It expresses her power. How cool is that! It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choos…

Undoubtedly, the writers at the Guardian were thinking the same. However, one would do well to doubt whether the above described behaviors would be good were they to be performed by humans.

I'm struggling to see how physically fighting to get dominance can possibly be portrayed as a good thing. :(

Noteworthy and circumstances make it a good story. But... It seems to fly in the face of modern sensibilities.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#34

Post by tpush »

runawaybottle wrote: post #20
lm28469 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beat up her own mother > just about choices and how brave you choose to be Reminds me of Hollywood directors who think "alpha" women characters have to be regular women with all the traits of "toxic masculinity"

Bill Burr always had a good joke about inclusivity in politics, where the gist of it is - just because you have a woman, or a minority as your leader, doesn’t also mean that a woman or minority won’t be a corrupt piece of shit. You’ll just have diversity in corruption, nothing will truly change, so don’t just blindly support these current ideologies.

Corruption and diversity are obviously orthogonal issues which I think everyone recognizes, so I'm not sure what point Bill Burr was trying to make. Women being just as corrupt as men is kind of irrelevant for any diversity policy; Burr's joke isn't illuminating much here.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#35

Post by runawaybottle »

tpush wrote: post #34
runawaybottle wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Burr always had a good joke about inclusivity in politics, where the gist of it is - just because you have a woman, or a minority as your leader, doesn’t also mean that a woman or minority won’t be a corrupt piece of shit. You’ll just have diversity in corruption, nothing will truly change, so don’t just blindly support these current ideologies.

Corruption and diversity are obviously orthogonal issues which I think everyone recognizes, so I'm not sure what point Bill Burr was trying to make. Women being just as corrupt as men is kind of irrelevant for any diversity policy; Burr's joke isn't illuminating much here.

Just read the comment below yours. People actually believe that there is something qualitatively different about gender with respect to the job.

‘The world would be better if women ran it’ or ‘The world would be better if men ran it’, none of these beliefs use objective criteria, yet it is one of the more dominant themes in the current zeitgeist.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#36

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

tpush wrote: post #34
runawaybottle wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Burr always had a good joke about inclusivity in politics, where the gist of it is - just because you have a woman, or a minority as your leader, doesn’t also mean that a woman or minority won’t be a corrupt piece of shit. You’ll just have diversity in corruption, nothing will truly change, so don’t just blindly support these current ideologies.

Corruption and diversity are obviously orthogonal issues which I think everyone recognizes, so I'm not sure what point Bill Burr was trying to make. Women being just as corrupt as men is kind of irrelevant for any diversity policy; Burr's joke isn't illuminating much here.

He's attacking the "women-are-wonderful" bias which most people aren't cognizant of. You see lowlifes like the woman who assaulted the teenager last year over a phone hide behind their gender and act like their bad behavior is an impossibility.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#37

Post by ipspam »

eadmund wrote: post #8
tokai wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's also 22 years younger than him.

You inspired me to the lifespan of Japanese macaques, and it is 27 years; the previous alpha male was 31 years old, which suggests to me that he must have been pretty over the hill. Given that she is smaller than the average male macaque, I imagine that this is not a terribly stable situation.

Interesting. What are the odds they can set up a livestream so we can watch macaque fight club? I love a good underdog.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#38

Post by ipspam »

greyfox wrote: post #30

i wonder what implications this has on mating? will she find a mate? Presumably the male would need to dominate her in order to procreate, that does not appear to be the case, currently. Will she attempt to assume the male role in the mating process? Lots of questions here around this issue.

Yes. Many. I think the conservators need to leave a strap on with the food, just in case.

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#39

Post by clairity »

rory wrote: post #2

This is all the more impressive because macaques generally display strong sexual dimorphism in size (males are ~45% bigger on average than females, vs. more like ~15% in humans). I wonder how big Yakei is.

it’s strength, both psychological and physical, that correlates most closely with dominance, not size or gender/sex, though those of course tend to correlate with physical strength. a nice property of sexual reproduction (as opposed to asexual) is that you get two chances at having generalized strength in parents, as opposed to one, which correlates with greater family fitness and offspring survival.

this is probably the biggest misconception in mainstream discussions of gender/sex and power (and part of what makes them so tiresome), which threads through everything from affirmative action to sexual harassment to lgbt rights. multidimensional strength fosters dominance, not just gender/sex or simply size. the dominant (or submissive) gender can be performed by either sex. this is foundational for understanding power dynamics (whether sexual, political, economic, social, religious, or anything else).

Re: Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history

#40

Post by Fern_Blossom »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #19
fooperdupes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True progress is the freedom for everyone to be an asshole.

Assholes are so underappreciated they're used for slander. It's an anatomical device that controls defecation; Keeping poop at bay while you go about your business. Stop calling evil "asshole" and you might find your pooping becomes a little easier, as that part of your body is no longer equivocated with malice.

Wait... are you serious? Please tell me you're being funny... oh God... that's where we're at nowadays... I think this is a sincere statement...
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