Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship • Hacker News Board

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#411

Post by bnralt » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

mgbmtl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surrendering US citizenship is a logical choice Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. In most Western countries, being a resident is associated with healthcare and pension, so having one residency is logical.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

Many Americans seem to believe that, but it doesn't actually seem to be the case. For instance, when Yemen was falling apart, countries like China, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia all worked hard to evacuate their citizens, many using their military to do so[1]. The U.S. response was to tell American citizens they were on their own[2]. The U.S. embassy even recommended that Americans seek assistance from India if they needed to evacuate[3].

So if anything, I'd say America is worse than other countries at getting citizens out of bad situations. But there seems to be a tendency for people to not look at what other countries actually do and just assume that America is the best.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32162364 [2] https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans... [3] https://twitter.com/SMedia4/status/585286801968893954

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#412

Post by surfingdino » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

International tax reporting is a real burden and I am not surprised they choose to go down that route if it makes life easier for them.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#413

Post by pitaj » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

boulos wrote: post #398

hnthrwy1111 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case as an accidental American I was not born in the US, I have never lived in the US, I have never worked in the US, I receive no benefits from the US, I was ineligible for the covid stimulus, I am unable to vote in US elections. It's comical to categorize my refusal to participate in this scam as tax evasion. I don't live in the US, I live in a supposedly sovereign nation. Just as Americans pointed out the ab…

Can you clarify how you are an accidental American? E.g., were you born on a US base in another country?

Wikipedia says [1]:

> U.S. law also states that a child born outside of the U.S to a U.S. citizen parent who previously spent sufficient time in the U.S. is a U.S. citizen at birth, regardless of whether the child also has the citizenship of the country of birth or another citizenship. U.S. citizens married to fellow U.S. citizens can transmit U.S. citizenship to their children if either parent has ever had a residence in the United States (without any minimum time limitation on how long they held that residence.) However, for U.S. citizens married to non-U.S. citizens, the required period of residence is longer; under the Nationality Act of 1940 and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, the required period of residence was set to ten years, five of which had to be after the age of 14. The Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1986 reduced this to five years, two of which had to be after the age of 14.

So you're automatically a citizen if you're born in the USA, if both of your parents are citizens (and at least one has resided in the USA), or if either of your parents is a citizen and lived in the USA for 5 years (2 of which after the age of 14).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidental_American

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#414

Post by janeroe » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

Fidelix wrote: post #7

amcoastal wrote: post #3

Its really a great system we have here --- get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans who pay tons more for basic services and then when it's time to pay back run off and keep your change. No wonder America is doing so well.

Pay back? You mean get robbed a bit more?

It's our cow and we're to milk it!

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#415

Post by vernie » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

ggggtez wrote: post #309

fourthwaveska wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Spanish golden visa will require a €550k housing investment, then the normal amount of accrued in-country time for citizenship. Maybe we’re sort of upper midde-class then. We gross about $200k consulting. Not rich, not poor. We live in the developing world now so here we are definitely upper middle class/rich, and do not have millions in assets.

You are upper class. Yes you're not rich, but you're not middle class. The middle class American dream is a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence, 2 cars, and a dog. You're talking about buying a half million dollar house in Spain because of a moral concern about global geopolitics. You're not middle class.

Rich people love to say they're "middle class" or "comfortable"

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#416

Post by ne0flex » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

Being a Canadian, I started a tax-free savings account "TFSA" (similar to a US Roth IRA but with way less restrictions)when I turned 18 and was investing heavily in it. A few years later I would get a green card and move to the US and didn't touch the account afterwards except make a few rebalances here and there. My brokerage asked me to update my information and asked me if I was a "US" person to which I answered yes because of my greencard. A little while later I get a notification that I owe US taxes... on an account that I opened before I had anything to do with the US and that is considered a tax-free account in Canada.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#417

Post by imwillofficial » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #390

petre wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He died, so it didn't do much help.

What difference does that make? Is the ambulance worthless because not everybody it picks up lives?

Too little too late makes all the difference in the world.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#418

Post by w0mbat » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #319

simonh wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there are a handful right here on this comment section. I'm a Brit and have known maybe half a dozen US citizens reasonably well here in London over the years, at least two of which renounced US citizenship for tax reasons while I knew them. It's definitely a thing.

According to another post you do not owe tax on income below $108k so that’s probably not going to affect most filers, though I’m sure an anomalously high number of HN users are earning six-figure salaries.

As multiple people have explained, preparing the required paperwork each year is a major expense and hassle, even if you do not owe any tax. Also, if you are technical enough to frequent this web site and you think $108K is a lot of money, you are being underpaid.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#419

Post by koonsolo » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

amilios wrote: post #252

koonsolo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only 1 company you can work for, and no way to work independently or start a company? Seems strange to me.

If all the companies that are willing to hire you equally treat you like crap, you aren't really given much choice. In terms of entrepreneurship, it carries a ton of risk. People living paycheck-to-paycheck typically aren't able to carry such a risk with no safety net (family, etc.).

Price is set by supply and demand, not by either seller or buyer.

In a market with multiple suppliers and buyers, the price will sort itself out.

That you don't like that price has nothing to do with either side being "evil".

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#420

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

api wrote: post #290

academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

AFAIK if you live in a country like Canada with higher taxes you still have to file to maintain citizenship but you end up paying zero since you can deduct what you paid in your home country. This would apply to people relocating to countries with a lower tax base. In that case you have to renounce.

[deleted]