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Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

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Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#171

Post by varelse »

yobbo wrote: post #130
varelse wrote: post #95

I suspect one could go a long way towards solving this by announcing that unvaccinated covid cases will get zero health insurance coverage. Make exceptions for those that truly cannot be vaccinated but to hell with everyone else. Going further, make society difficult to navigate for people unwilling to be vaccinated or wear masks and our frontline workers will have much better lives. Why are we compromising our quali…

> unvaccinated covid cases will get zero health insurance coverage Most unvaccinated are probably already without health insurance. Vaccination essentially follows socio-economic status, and has the lowest density in blacks and hispanics. Going door-to-door, or "vaccination buses", or things of the line might help.

We have a terrible national heritage here and I understand the reluctance. But this isn't how we handled smallpox or polio.

There really isn't any other option than vaccination given that coronaviruses can reach up to 35% fatality (1). We are extremely lucky right now that the current fatality rate (IFR) is hovering around 1%. That could change.

Or if there is another option, what is it? We are a year and a half into this thing with no end in sight. And it has already demonstrated it can mutate past herd immunity for those who have already had it or who have been vaccinated. But it's also pretty clear that those who have been vaccinated are more likely to survive by a huge margin.

I'm a huge believer in letting people destroy themselves. But I don't believe in letting them destroy everyone else. I'm weird I guess.

1. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#172

Post by res0nat0r »

TheFreim wrote: post #161
res0nat0r wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has a simple, free, and pretty readily available solution to prevent death. The others are not that black and white.

Eating healthy isn't difficult in a country like the United States and eating healthy prevents many medical issues. It seems pretty black and white from my point of view (I do understand that some issues are generic, those aren't what I'm discussing here).

Healthy food is expensive and time consuming to make, many Americans can't afford it and also don't easily have access to it.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#173

Post by papito »

commandlinefan wrote: post #159
vagrantJin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while the office TV is showing billionaires take off into space in personal rocket penises. Stripped of the emotional phraseology, I 100% agree with your point. There is something pointedly psychotic about flying rockets just because when your employees are not paid or treated fairly. But that's just psuedo "capitalism".

> flying rockets just because Hmmm... the Wright brothers flew airplanes "just because" and now we have relatively cheap, ubiquitous air travel. I'm happy to see Bezos and Musk investing in space travel - I think the end-result will be a positive for human civilization.

This was done half a century ago, and neither of these got even close to the true orbit. A Soviet dog went further - in 1957. At least Elon Musk's SpaceX has practical, monetary benefits to the taxpayer.

This is not opening up the dream of space travel for the commoners - it's ultimately a joy ride for people who got rich from a broken, corrupt, and an imbalanced system.

I frankly do not understand HN's glorification of this morbid excess.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#174

Post by varelse »

motohagiography wrote: post #165
varelse wrote: post #95

I suspect one could go a long way towards solving this by announcing that unvaccinated covid cases will get zero health insurance coverage. Make exceptions for those that truly cannot be vaccinated but to hell with everyone else. Going further, make society difficult to navigate for people unwilling to be vaccinated or wear masks and our frontline workers will have much better lives. Why are we compromising our quali…

Why on earth do we tolerate these tedious outgroup-blame posts? If only our problems could be solved by blaming them on scapegoats and pariahs. It's like intelligent and competent people engage in political talk because it's relaxing to not be held to the same standards and rigour of their actual field of expertise, and it's somehow satisfying to have the attention of people who can't tell the difference.

Because this is an out group constantly endangering the well-being of others? It really is one. Or if it isn't, then what exactly is it? Your body, your choices, your consequences, but not mine or anyone else's.

Why is the right to dodge vaccination and masks so important, so absolutely vital, so incredibly on target that we risk the destruction of the Republic itself if we mandate them? Do you also support my right to throw hand grenades into rooms full of people I don't like?

This nation was founded during a smallpox and variola academic where our founding father George Washington forced vaccination upon his soldiers (1). But mandating vaccination against the current pandemic is unamerican? How does that work?

https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/GW&smallpoxinoculation.html

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#175

Post by Jtsummers »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #158
Jtsummers wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would largely depend on the particular contract. Money can be paid conditioned on an expectation of working for a period of time. Failure to meet your end can result in having to pay it back (in full or in part).

Case in TX where this was overturned. Employer was Buc-ees. The amount in question was far higher, about $100k, as the employee was given a $X/hr raise contingent on at least Y years of service. Court ruled contract violated right to work. This may mean bonus clawbacks can't work.

https://cases.justia.com/texas/fourteenth-court-of-appeals/2...

Interesting case. I'm not a lawyer and have only given this a quick read, but it seems that the amount she could owe back was essentially unbounded, the longer she was there the more she could owe back. That was a major factor in the decision against Buc-ee's. See pages 8 and 9, in particular. I don't think this would work against bonus claw backs in general, only if they were similarly considered unreasonable and also only in TX, whose laws were violated in this case. (EDIT: Or states with similar laws, obviously.)

A $10k signing bonus that has a bounded and shorter obligation period could be considered reasonable.

> As noted above, an enforceable covenant must contain limitations as to time, geographic area, and scope of activity to be restrained that are reasonable and do not impose a greater restraint than necessary to protect the employer’s business interest.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BC/htm/BC.15.htm

Sections 15.50 and 15.51 are the relevant parts.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#176

Post by iammisc »

aantix wrote: post #25
linuxftw wrote: post #14

All the lockdowns started because we didn't want to overwhelm the hospital system. In the US, the hospital system, at least the ERs were already running on fumes. Our politicians have decided it's better to play world police and kill people overseas than invest in community hospitals. All the billions handed out to the vaccine companies and the propaganda machines, but no investment in increasing hospital capacity. T…

> In the US, the hospital system, at least the ERs were already running on fumes >but no investment in increasing hospital capacity Agree, where did all the billions go? The most expensive healthcare on the planet and we can't find the money to scale and expand a year and a half later.

Many states ban new hospitals from starting without the approval of other hospitals. NO one wants to effect actual change, preferring instead to deal with superficial attempts to deal with the problem.

That being said, hospitals have not been overwhelmed in the United States. The emergency hospitals we did build mainly went unused.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#177

Post by bastardoperator »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #79
pavel_lishin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're underplaying non-financial incentives. I would rather have a job that pays $X but offers flexible work hours and vacation time that allows me to be a better parent, than a job that pays $1.5X but won't let me take a day or afternoon off to (e.g.) take my kid to the doctor, etc. Granted, that probably applies more to WFH desk jobs than front-line nurses.

An RN I know in New Orleans makes a paltry $28 / hour. Insidiously, they gave her 10k upfront for a 3 year contract. If she leaves, she has to give it back. She put it straight to her student loans so now she’s stuck there. I agree with op, we say we love our front line workers, but that’s just talk. I’m not sure but there’s not much of a union for them down there.

Most employers don't go after employees for these because the employee has already paid taxes on the money and the business itself has written the money off. Having to go back and change taxes or sue an employee typically isn't worth the cost of the bonus itself. This is also null and void if they're violating her rights, like the ability to use the bathroom or take a lunch break.

Last, 28 / hour is fairly low for an RN. While indeed shows a median salary of 28.30 in New Orleans, it seems like most companies in the area are hiring at 54-64 dollars per hour setting the median for the pandemic at 46.52 per hour.

If she can nearly double her pay, who cares about 10k... I've never seen a company try to enforce these.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#178

Post by [deleted] »

zepto wrote: post #132
mumblemumble wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disgruntled nurses I know don't want more money anywhere near as much as they want things like lunch and bathroom breaks. Money can't buy happiness, but not being able to take care of your basic bodily needs can absolutely buy unhappiness.

> Money can't buy happiness No but not having enough will make you unhappy, and keep you trapped there.

[deleted]

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#179

Post by iammisc »

varelse wrote: post #95

I suspect one could go a long way towards solving this by announcing that unvaccinated covid cases will get zero health insurance coverage. Make exceptions for those that truly cannot be vaccinated but to hell with everyone else. Going further, make society difficult to navigate for people unwilling to be vaccinated or wear masks and our frontline workers will have much better lives. Why are we compromising our quali…

In a socialized medicine country, I'd understand this argument.

However, in a private medical system, there's no reason for this. If an unvaccinated person can pay, they ought to be treated. It's their money.

Re: Hospital exec says employees are walking off the job

#180

Post by iammisc »

varelse wrote: post #171
yobbo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unvaccinated covid cases will get zero health insurance coverage Most unvaccinated are probably already without health insurance. Vaccination essentially follows socio-economic status, and has the lowest density in blacks and hispanics. Going door-to-door, or "vaccination buses", or things of the line might help.

We have a terrible national heritage here and I understand the reluctance. But this isn't how we handled smallpox or polio. There really isn't any other option than vaccination given that coronaviruses can reach up to 35% fatality (1). We are extremely lucky right now that the current fatality rate (IFR) is hovering around 1%. That could change. Or if there is another option, what is it? We are a year and a half into…

this is fear mongering. The fatality rate of COVID, even at the beginning of the pandemic when we didn't even have proper metrics, was never measured to be more than about 7-8%, which is very high, but not 35%.

The paper you cite is about a hypothetical. Stop with the fear mongering.

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