NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#951

Post by nickthemagicman » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #932

nickthemagicman wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

400 people died of Covid...out of 350 million yesterday. How much do you think the actuaries would increase insurance cost for numbers like that? Doesn't seem like that's a huge risk increase. And 90% of those are in the above 75 years old age group with the highest maximum risk calculated in already. I bet there's not a single actuary that is worried about Covid.

Average cost of hospital care for COVID-19 ranges from $51,000 to $78,000, based on age. https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/average-cost-hosp... (Nov 2020) Vaccination reduces the risk of hospitalisation by 25x. (CDC data, 29 July 2021, leaked report). I don't have good data on hospitalisations, though for quite some time early in the pandemic it was about 15% of all detected cases. I strongly suspect it's lo…

So 50k a patient times 7,000 patients a day? That 325 million a day... 119 billion a year.

I change my mind. You all are correct. We should definitely raise the price of insurance for Covid.

It would eliminate people unnecessarily going to the hospital, and getting frivolous treatment...and would give a more accurate number of people who actually need hospitalization.

If you go to the hospital for the sniffles and test positive for Covid, the hospital will put you in a bed for two weeks for monitoring... because it's profitable.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#952

Post by moralestapia » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #380

clukic wrote: post #197

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib. For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate. These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go…

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school. What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

Your argument is fine in itself, the sexist remark is unnecessary.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#953

Post by coccinelle » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #11

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Requiring people to consume a medical product, especially one that has not been subject to the full FDA approval process, just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. They are making people into test subjects for a multinational corporation. It doesn't matter if we already do this to an extent with other vaccines; nothing in the past has ever come close to this. It doesn't matter if you think the vaccine is more…

Well, it happened to all of us for months for the past several months: in many places, people were prevented from "living their normal lives": in San Francisco, you could no longer get your hair cut, go to a restaurant, or worse, have family or friends over etc. Now, we are saying instead of imposing such restrictions on everyone, we are giving the opportunity of those willing to vaccinate to get back to some of these things. Why is it a problem to keep some restrictions for the unvaccinated that we've had for all for months? Unless you think there should never have been restrictions, but then how would you propose to handle all the folks that would have come knock on the doors of hospitals and clamor for oxygen, like what apparently happened in India?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#954

Post by anthonypasq » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #46

polote wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…

Alternatively, I'd be much more comfortable going out if I knew everyone around me would be vaccinated.

why?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#955

Post by anthonypasq » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

dbsmith83 wrote: post #900

throwaway842384 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now let's do obesity. From the CDC [1]: > From 1999–2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%. > Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death. > The estimated annual medical co…

> Also, if the government really cared about the health of the population, why aren't they mandating exercise or dietary health? Probably because obesity isn't contagious...

isnt it? if you're obese youre very likely to pass it onto your children

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#956

Post by anthonypasq » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

RaketenStadt wrote: post #210

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and done: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home > then let people make their own decisions about what to do As we see, they go to crowded places, unvaccinated, and spread the virus. I think that's irresponsible. Is that "ludicrous moralization and judgement?"

irresponsible to who? The other people that have made the same decision and accepted the risk? or the people who are vaccinated and have pretty close to zero risk?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#957

Post by dbsmith83 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

anthonypasq wrote: post #955

dbsmith83 wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, if the government really cared about the health of the population, why aren't they mandating exercise or dietary health? Probably because obesity isn't contagious...

isnt it? if you're obese youre very likely to pass it onto your children

That's not what contagious means--that's heritability

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#958

Post by res0nat0r » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #659

Barrin92 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

Everyone here has never been able to go to school in the usa since they were kids unless they proved they were vaccinated against the standard diseases we've been giving out shots against for decades. Same goes for most high education too.

It's just become "a thing" now thanks to the rightwing using it as another way to aggravate their base, and thanks to "experts" who have an internet connection and think they know more than epidemiologists.

Unless these steps are taken this will never end and the daily hassles will be worse and go on longer for everyone.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#959

Post by silent_cal » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

yibg wrote: post #892

Given the current attitudes towards vaccines and individual rights, it's doubtful we'll be able to have another achievement like the elimination of smallpox and polio. What happened in the last few decades? Increased mistrust of government? Shift in the views of individualism? Or is my assessment wrong and if something like smallpox popped up today we'd be able to work together to eradicate it?

The vaccines don't prevent transmission and had less than a year of testing. It's perfectly rational to be "hesitant" about them.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#960

Post by silent_cal » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

CabSauce wrote: post #167

I'm pretty tired of all this. If folks want don't want to get the vaccine, under the argument of personal responsibility, let them do what they want. However, if they willingly or negligently transmit covid, they should be civilly and maybe criminally liable. If they end up needing medical care, make them pay for it out of their pocket. Make them financially responsible for their decisions.

Should Pfizer be liable for side effects?