Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#391

Post by fsflover » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:20 AM UTC

gjulianm wrote: post #385

xyzal wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that even the 'smart' people from HN can't wait for their new M1 laptop to arrive convinced me that humans are a lost cause.

This is a moot point unless you always verify and check all hardware and software that you use, including communications devices.

You don't need to verify everything yourself. You can verify any small part and rely on the community to verify the rest. Or pay someone to verify. However, for all that you need verifiability, which Apple lacks.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#392

Post by fsflover » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:21 AM UTC

eecc wrote: post #389

xyzal wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that even the 'smart' people from HN can't wait for their new M1 laptop to arrive convinced me that humans are a lost cause.

So, it’s not that other platforms are any better! Are you sure intel, AMD, Arm or windows TPM aren’t snitching on you? Do we need to make our own silicon from ingot? There’s no technological solution to this problem, only social and legislative.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#393

Post by exo762 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

ddtaylor wrote: post #371

exo762 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people don't support copyright. It's a concept that should be abolished in it's current form. Right to attribution is OK. Ability to restrict other forms of use is not OK.

Does that mean if someone spends time and effort writing a book or painting a picture that I can resell it for less than them without their permission?

Why would any fan of someones work buy a knock-off copy? We can safely assume they are a fan, otherwise why would even buy it?

Also, painting is a physical object. It's a one of a kind.

EDIT: your objection and many many other questions like that are nicely argued against here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhBpI13dxkI (The Surprising History of Copyright talk by Karl Fogel)

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#394

Post by kaba0 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

tpxl wrote: post #370

kaba0 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how security works. Whether or not I am allowed to check that my entrance has no locks whatsoever doesn’t make it harder to open it. And the reverse, even if I don’t know the details of the lock in my door, it will not let others pass through.

> even if I don’t know the details of the lock in my door, it will not let others pass through. You absolutely can not make that assertion without being able to verify the lock.

What if I have a locksmith verify it for me? Like Apple and Android have been checked by several security researchers and while they absolutely have holes, there is are at least gates that can have them. Sandboxing is the bare minimum an OS should do if it wants to have third party applications installed.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#395

Post by PostThisTooFast » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

Whatever THAT is.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#396

Post by croes » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #47

I'm really conflicted about this. For context, I deeply hate the abuse of children and I've worked on a contract before that landed 12 human traffickers in custody that were smuggling sex slaves across boarders. I didn't need to know details about the victims in question, but it's understood that they're often teenagers or children. So my initial reaction when reading this Twitter thread was "let's get these bastards…

This scanning doesn't prevent the actual abuse and all this surveillance doesn't get to the root of the problem but can be misused by authoritarian governments.

It's a pandoras box. You wouldn't allow the regular search of your home in real life.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#397

Post by paulcarroty » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

bississippi wrote: post #179

SilverRed wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one here has a problem with the worst criminals being taken out. The problem is the scope creep that always comes after. In 2021 and 2020 we saw people being arrested for planning/promoting anti lockdown protests. Not for actually participating but for simply posting about it. The scope of what "harmful content" is is infinite. You might agree that police do need to take action against these people but surely you…

We also saw HN shadow banning entire IP CIDR blocks because they didn’t like argument against fleeting CDC guidance that was put forth or the Chinese lab origin theory in 2020. You can’t register from these CIDR blocks. If you had an account before the comments would just end up in a black hole. Dang can explain.

Any proofs will be great here.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#398

Post by gjulianm » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

marderfarker2 wrote: post #387

gjulianm wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a moot point unless you always verify and check all hardware and software that you use, including communications devices.

I don’t think that’s his point. The point is Apple made a laptop that did away technologies that allow PC ecosystem/choices we see today. The M1 MacBook feels like an iPhone, but sized as a laptop.

AFAIK, the M1 is an ARM laptop and the Linux kernel already supports it. I also assume that it won't be too long until we see Bootcamp for M1 Macs. So I don't think that M1 or Intel changes anything in that regard.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#399

Post by croes » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:24 AM UTC

SXX wrote: post #226

It's funny to see anyone here could find this acceptable. I wonder what's comments would be after Apple start to scan phones for anti-censorship or anti-CCP materials in China. Or for some gay porn in Saudi Arabia. Because you know in some countries there are materials that local government find more offensive than mere child abuse. And once surveillance tech is deployed it's certainly gonna be used to oppress people…

If you don't, you are suspicious.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#400

Post by fsflover » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 11:24 AM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #312

aethertron wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some 'predators' are dumb. They'll keep using iPhones, get caught, and have their mugshots posted in the press. Great PR for the policy makers who decided this. Such stories will be shoved in the faces of the privacy advocates who were against it, to the detriment of their credibility.

Yeah, and a lot of shortsighted people (even here) will be happy, because they are not 'predators'. Of course, they won't be shown photos of victims of brutal dictatorships like Russia, Belarus, China, etc. They love it that phone manufacturer keeps their phone free of malware.

> They love it that phone manufacturer keeps their phone free of malware.

They love it that phone manufacturer tells their phone free of malware.

Fixed that for you. See: Pegasus.